Podcast

Episode: 561 |
Panel Discussion:
Why and How to Become an Adjunct Professor:
Episode
561

HOW TO THRIVE AS AN
INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL

Panel Discussion

Why and How to Become an Adjunct Professor

Show Notes

In this episode of Unleashed, the panel discussion focuses on the pros and cons of becoming an adjunct professor. The panelists discuss the motivations behind teaching courses as an adjunct professor, how to get hired, whether to teach in traditional MBA programs or other certificate or degree programs, the amount of work involved, typical pay, relationship building opportunities, project opportunities, and ancillary benefits such as access to datasets or research services. The discussion kicks off with Adam Braff, a data analytics executive/advisor, shares his reasons for teaching, stating that the best reasons to teach are not practical instrumental reasons but more passion and love for teaching and believes it is a creative act. Mary Kate Scott follows Adam. She teaches at the University of Southern California, Marshall School of Business in the MBA program, and Keck School of Medicine, focusing on healthcare. She has taught the business of healthcare, innovation and health care, new business models in health care, entrepreneurship and health care, and medical device business models. Mary Kate also shares her background with Procter and Gamble and later joined McKinsey for two years to become a better professor. She found she loved the position and stayed there for seven years, but she states that she found the joy of teaching to be both inspirational and fun. She enjoys the level of engagement and interaction in her classes. Sven Beiker teaches Strategy Making in an MBA program at Stanford Business School, and also at a university in Sweden about AI and product development.  He discusses his experience teaching at Stanford and their passion for teaching. He began his teaching career at Stanford which led from a position as an automotive program manager. He also enjoys working with younger people, finding it intellectually stimulating. He has also found the position to be an asset in branding, and has found that it helps in terms of being considered as a keynote speaker from Stanford Business School.  Mohannad Gomaa shares his experience teaching at US Navy PostGraduate School, which was motivated by a contract with a colleague and his subject matter expertise. He designed and delivered the curriculum. He has also taught in consulting colleges, and recently, he was authorized by the Association of Supply Chain Management to teach supply chain certifications, including the CSCP certified supply chain professional certification. This allows him to associate with a reputable knowledge body and meet with stakeholders interested in his work. He has also signed an agreement to be a consulting partner for the ACM, which will allow him to explore more opportunities across industries. He believes teaching is a passion that can generate revenue beyond the passion. And an adjunct professor at the University of Copenhagen shares her passion for teaching consulting and adds to her reputation for expertise in her field, but she finds teaching fun and energizing.  

 

How to Secure a Position as an Adjunct Professor

The conversation also touches on how to get started as an adjunct professor. To do this, one should be flexible about the institution they want to teach in and focus on the dimensions that are necessary to their field. Many schools have executive MBA programs and masters of leadership programs and other programs  that are growing and need teachers who can teach their specific subject matter area and create and pitch syllabuses. To reach out to the right people in these institutions, one should reach out to the Academic Director of different degree programs. This person will be responsible for the substantive side of these programs and can help with informational interviews. For example, if one wants to teach in New York City, one could reach out to HR or the dean of the school. Mary Kate discusses the benefits of adjunct teaching, including the joy of publications, networking, and credibility. She suggests starting as a guest speaker and gradually delivering classes, either shorter or elective, and eventually creating the curriculum. She also encourages reaching out to people teaching similar courses to your field to get started. She also mentions simply letting people know you are interested in teaching.  Sven mentions that many full-time professors don’t like to teach, but they are constantly looking for someone to bring real-world experience into the classroom, to interact with a class, and bring their knowledge to the table. He states that, there are continuing education programs at universities, such as Stanford, that offer continuing education programs on both the professional side of education. These programs can help students gain experience and develop their interest in graduate programs and could be a first step into teaching. Networking is a key aspect of adjunct teaching, and can lead to a board position. 

 

The Evaluation Process Revealed

The panelists discussed the typical evaluation process for teaching positions, including the need for specific credentials or certificates, and how to express interest. Having someone internally who can vouch for you can make a difference. The first step in the evaluation process is to have a track record, such as a recording of a lecture, a written syllabus, and student evaluations. This ensures that when applying to another institution, they feel confident in their ability to teach a class. 

 

Compensation for Teaching

The compensation for teaching varies between $6,000 for a semester to 15,000, with a median of $10. The time commitment for creating a syllabus from scratch is around 200 hours. There may be additional benefits associated with teaching, such as subsidized healthcare benefits. The panelists discuss the range of compensation, which can range from $1,000 for a 90-minute class to $2,000 for a two-hour class and could for a 7, 12, or 14 week program.  The first time teaching, the teacher takes over the curriculum and develops it, however, they could be writing the entire curriculum, which can be a lot of responsibility but also an opportunity to shape the educational experience for students. It is worth noting that the course can also impact your consulting business, as committing to a class every week can limit your consulting business if you travel frequently. In contrast, in-person classes can be more effective due to scheduling. Another panelist, who is a Professor of Practice at Michigan State University’s School of Business, states that the course is a salaried position, but it is not a full-time gig. The pay is based on a W-2 and a salary, which is a relatively small amount.

 

The Benefits of Teaching

The conversation revolves around the benefits of teaching and consulting, including inspiration, credibility, and carryover spillover benefits. Mary Kay shares her experience with getting clients and consulting project leads and converting leads into confirmed projects due to her credibility. Her students have become clients, and she concludes that the network is an enormous benefit.  Adam suggests that teaching should be synergistic with consulting work, and that it is synergistic to his writing work and that he has adapted the courses he teaches to corporate training. However, in this situation, it is advised to focus on the language of contracts to ensure that intellectual property rights are portable to a corporate context. Sven shares his experience with gaining project leads, which can be former students who become clients or organizations seeking advice from a professor who is also a consultant, and he has often been asked to be on the advisory board of startups by former students. This nurtures the network and gives the professor more standing and credibility. Clients often recognise the professor’s expertise and reputation, making it a valuable asset.

 

Best Practices for Networking Opportunities

To maximize networking opportunities, Nick has found partnering opportunities with fellow professors. Mary Kate suggests connecting with other faculty members, attending university events, and partnering with fellow professors. She also shares her experiences of being wasted in the first semester of teaching and finding it difficult to find opportunities to meet with faculty members. 

 

Developing a Curriculum in Academia

The conversation turns to the complexity of developing a curriculum in academia. Developing a syllabus can be challenging, especially when it comes to creating evaluation materials and quizzes that can be objective and not lead to low grades. The tension between grades and evaluations can also be a challenge, but it becomes easier after the first time. The complexity of creating a syllabus depends on the type of class, for example, a seminar class at Stanford may require more discussion and bringing in guest lecturers. Another may require more content creation; a new class may require more detailed teaching material, including a reading list, quizzes, preparing exams etc. 

 

Teaching As a Learning Experience

Jared Lee, a faculty lecturer at McGill University and principal at Juniper, a Montreal-based consultancy, believes that teaching is a deeper way to learn and develop skills, as it requires a lot of preparation, the ability to defend theories against questions, and to be able to implement storytelling techniques. He believes that teaching 180 students who have detailed questions requires being bulletproof in preparation and how to apply the theories. Jared also shares that this experience has built his ability in educating clients. Panelists also state that teaching has helped develop stronger public speaking skills, and the ability to manage a crowd. The discussion revolves around the challenges of teaching at universities like Stanford and the importance of facilitation in making discussions meaningful and meaningful.

 

Access to Ancillary Benefits As an Adjunct Professor

Additional ancillary benefits include access to datasets, academic journal articles, and other resources. Academic resources, such as the MSU library, are free and can be used in private practice. Academics can also leverage their academic connections to engage in conversations with people for various purposes, such as building lectures for their courses or collaborating on consulting projects. Health insurance is another asset. For example, at McGill, teaching three sections within a year can grant access to health insurance and supplemental pension and investment plans. The conversation ends with the participants discussing their takeaway from the discussion, including: 

  • The importance of 200 hours of syllabus development
  • The importance of fostering meaningful discussions and connections within academia for both students and faculty
  • The importance of passion, preparation, and genuine effort in creating content for a class
  • The need for preparation
  • Staying updated on relevant topics and staying updated on the latest developments
  • Credibility

 

The panelists agreed that you should have good reasons for taking this position, and having a clear purpose for teaching can lead to better results. One additional tip was to be clear about why you are doing it and this will help you focus on how to achieve your goal. Another is to take advantage of a guest lecturer opportunity, and to be open to learning from your students. In conclusion, the panelists discussed the importance of passion, preparation, and genuine effort in creating content for a class. They also highlighted the importance of being proactive, asking questions, and embracing the unique experiences of students. By doing so, teachers can gain valuable insights and develop a deeper understanding of their field.

 

Timestamps:

07:03 Consulting career paths and teaching experience

10:25 Adjunct teaching roles in economics

12:37 Finding teaching opportunities in higher education

15:06 Adjunct teaching opportunities and how to get started

17:24 Teaching at universities, networking, and evaluation processes

24:31 Teaching gigs, compensation, and time commitment

27:07 Teaching and consulting gigs for experts in customer experience management

31:22 Leveraging academic faculty status for consulting opportunities

34:48 Curriculum development and networking at a university

36:42 Teaching methods and challenges in higher education

39:58 Teaching and learning theories in consulting

42:48 Teaching strategies and access to academic resources

45:16 Academic benefits, networking, and health insurance

53:21 Teaching and consulting in academia

 

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561.Adjunct Professor Panel Discussion.

 

Will Bachman  00:00

Hello and welcome to Unleashed. I’m your host will Bachman. Today’s episode is a recording of a panel discussion that we had for the Umbrex community. On the topic of becoming an adjunct professor, the pros and cons and how to do it. We cover the following questions in this panel discussion. What motivated these consultants to teach a course as an adjunct professor? How do you get hired as an adjunct professor? Should you aim to teach in a traditional MBA program and Executive MBA Program or some other type of certificate or degree program? How much work? Is it really? And the answer is much more than I had expected. How much do you typically get paid? What sort of relationship building opportunities does the role provide? As these teaching roles ever lead to project opportunities in their consulting practice? And what other ancillary benefits exist such as access to datasets or Research Services? I’m grateful for the panelists who participate in this Adam Braff. Mary Kate Scott, Jared Lee. Leila gets cut cosmi Mohammed goma, Nicholas Z Eisler? Will you’ll hear me refer to a C and Sven biker. And now for the panel discussion? Why be an adjunct in terms of what are the benefits? And let’s be transparently like how much do you get paid? And a whole series of questions. So if you have questions, pop them in the chat so I can integrate those. All right, but let’s start with with Adam and Mary Kate. So maybe you could just say what you teach and where, and then go into the reasons that you decided to do it. So let’s start with that. And let’s turn to Adam and then we’ll turn to Mary Kay. I’ll just do the briefest introduction first. So I’m Adam Braff. I am a data analytics, kind of executive slash advisor. I’ve been doing that for a few decades now. And I teach, not surprisingly, topics related to business analytics, at Brown and at NYU. So that’s me in a nutshell. And it’s something I do on the side very much as a, almost like a hobby alongside my consulting work. Okay, and why did you decide to teach Adam, what’s the benefit? I mean, you’re very busy as a consultant, you could be playing with your dog and running your prediction contest. Why? Why teach? Sure. Okay, so the top line, I wasn’t sure if we were gonna do all the intros for us. So the top line is, I think the best reasons to teach are not the practical instrumental ones, but more of the Passion ones and the fact that you love teaching. And you’re, you’re almost compelled to do it, you feel drawn to it. And we can certainly get into all of the practical reasons as well. But honestly, I teach because it’s a creative act along the lines of a prediction contest and writing a stupid blog with pictures of my dog. So I’ll just, I’ll just say it’s like it’s more of a kind of a kooky spiritual thing for me that I like a way to make an extra, you know, 10 grand. All right. Mary Kay, how about yourself? What do you teach? And where, and what what’s the main drivers that got you to raise your hand to teach, sir? So hi, everyone. So Mary Kate Scott, and I teach at the University of Southern California and I teach in the Marshall School of Business in the MBA program, and the Keck School of Medicine. And my focus is around healthcare. So I’ve taught the business of health care, innovation and health care, new business models in health care, entrepreneurship and health care. I did a deep dive on medical device business models. And the the Keck School of Medicine is teaching physicians about the business of health care. So either MBA students or I teach physicians. So my brief bio, so I started Procter and Gamble. And then I went back, got a lot more school, became a professor and loved it. And actually went to McKinsey and said, I’m really only joining McKinsey for two years, so I can become a better professor. And that was, and they said, Oh, that’s okay. I turned out actually really loved it and stayed at McKinsey for seven years. And for me, like Adam, you do this for the joy of doing it. And there’s a lot more benefits than just joy.

 

04:20

But it’s, it’s really, like I come home from teaching. And I’m like, dancing around in the kitchen. Because I just, it’s just so much fun.

 

04:31

And it’s fun because you at the level we teach, people are super engaged, they want to be in class, they have read, and it’s just a lot of fun. So, do you want to start going through questions or were more here? Well, what which? Thank you for asking. I’ll have a couple of people other people introduce themselves and they will go on to the next question. So, so far, we have to for passion and Z

 

05:00

You’re all for everything else. In terms of the scorekeeping, spin biker? Why don’t you tell us where you teach and what was like the main drivers that got you to say, oh, I want an opportunity to teach volunteer. Every morning everyone from Palo Alto, California, I teach at strategy making at the Stanford Business School also in the MBA program. And also recently, I got another teaching appointment at a university in Sweden, Buddhists. And that’s about AI and product development. So that’s fairly recent. Maybe let me tell you a little bit more about the Stanford teaching. And it was basically carry over from my time when I was full time at Stanford as an manager in automotive programs. And I took that over during my time at McKinsey, which is now 10 years ago, I’ve been an independent for about seven years now. And I took it over because I found it in addition to what others said already, that it’s that you enjoy it. Also really stimulating to work together with the younger people, they challenge you in a different way, then, actually, the the

 

06:15

young MBAs that you might meet at McKinsey. Also in the team room.

 

06:20

The intellectual stimulation was was really good. And I will say it’s, it’s now also some kind of branding. I mean, I still have a Stanford email address. When I get a request, like hey, Sven, can you give a keynote, I say, Well, sure, you can get me as a keynote speaker from Stanford Business School, or as my independent consulting practice, Silicon Valley mobility. So branding is also a pretty good thing. I will admit.

 

06:48

Fantastic. Thank you, Sven. And behind it. Tell us about where you teach US Navy PostGraduate School. Awesome. And and what drew you to that? What do you do it? What motivated you? Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s been very interesting, actually, what motivated me to do it, it was actually a contract that I won

 

07:13

with another colleague, and he asked if I would be interested in doing it, part of it was actually due to the subject matter expertise that I had.

 

07:22

So it was really interesting to sort of design the curriculum, and then deliver it, which was very fulfilling a lot of ways. And that’s okay, actually, internationally as well. So was very exciting, I got to teach him a couple of countries. And,

 

07:38

and that contract at some point ended,

 

07:42

as Sue was, the program is still there, but I haven’t pursued it. But that got me. I mean, what got me there is actually my passion for teaching as well. So during my tenure, at Accenture strategy, I used to teach in consulting colleges, for managers and consultants, the typical thing, you know, how to build a business case, and so forth, and how to sell. So it was very fulfilling to give back to, to as a mentor to my colleagues. But then, and you know, I mean, you go to a lot of projects, and you have to set up those workshops. So I think it’s inherited in us as consultants to do that as part of the job. And then lately, which is really just happened a week ago, I got authorized by the Association of supply chain management, to be a trainer to teach supply chain certifications. I don’t know if there’s any supply chain practitioners here, but I’ll be teaching the CSCP certified supply chain professional certification, as well as others as well. And my goal from this was to associate myself with a reputable steer, knowledge body that would help me like Sven said, you know, part of branding, to sort of

 

09:08

give me the opportunity to meet with different stakeholders that might be interested in, then a follow up, whether it’s an assessment, or helping them with the roadmap and find opportunities there. So I also got, I just signed an agreement to be a consulting partner for the ACM. So that was the lead way and what I was really looking forward to is to develop that relationship with our body so that it will take me to to explore more opportunities

 

09:39

in across industries, so I’m very excited about it. Teaching is definitely something that

 

09:47

that is a passion, like you all said, and it can definitely be revenue generating beyond the passion for sure. Alright, so I think we have three for passion, and three and a half or two

 

10:00

question and one for sort of prestige impact.

 

10:06

Kind of reputational aura kind of benefits. I want to turn to Layla, who teaches applied consulting course at University of Copenhagen. Leila, what, what drew you to consulting to being a professor to being an adjunct?

 

10:25

Thank you very much. Do you hear me? Okay? Yes, yes.

 

10:30

Very briefly. I’ve done it for five years now. And I basically just find it really fun. And it gives me lots of energy, like I heard several of you say, it’s definitely not for the pay, it doesn’t pay very well, I would say you can’t live from doing that kind of work.

 

10:48

But it also, as I heard, some of you said, establishes me a little bit like an expert. It’s a small country, here, we only 5 million people in Copenhagen, a small. So having a role like that people will sort of get to know my name a little bit. And I’ve already seen that it also gives some clients.

 

11:06

So it’s not that business wise, I would say, but I would, if I didn’t find it fun and energizing to be together with these young people, I definitely wouldn’t do it. And I guess the last thing I want to mention is also the whole sort of Applied Economic consulting, so I’m teaching them to act as a consultant and do what consulting style report. And that’s very satisfying, because the economics degree here is very theoretical, very mathematical, mathematical.

 

11:35

So I think they really need to get some inspiration from the outside world, apart from what the typical professor will teach them. Okay, so that’s my, I think we’re running now at four and a half for passion and loving to do it is getting energy out of it. Awesome. And see, I haven’t forgotten you.

 

11:55

There’s a number of questions in the chat. And this was something that we wanted to cover of, how do you actually get the gig? So who do you reach out to? Are these like posted somewhere? Or is this more through personal network, you reach out to the dean or something, hey, I’d be happy to teach a course. And I’d like to start Adam with you. You and I talked about this a little bit that maybe you don’t start by saying going for the full time MBA kind of flagship program, but you might start with more of some kind of EMBA or certificate or something. Adam, how did you get into this, how does want to actually get, you know, started as an adjunct professor. So if we begin with the assumption that what you’re trying to do is just get into teaching the subjects that you know about and that you’re excited about, you’re probably going to be better off to be somewhat flexible about the institution in which you’re doing that, right, you have a hypothesis, probably, that you want to be in higher ed, maybe most of the people on this call are sort of guided a little bit toward business school programs, I have found that it’s very hard for you to find at once the perfect combination of the geography, you’re in the prestige of an institution that is going to give you that kind of, you know, reflected glory. That is they have a need for the exact role that you’re teaching. And it’s the degree programs, so you have to flex on some of these dimensions. And very often the easiest one to flex on is the one you were hinting at, well, which is there are lots of there are probably a lot of schools around the city you’re in I don’t know about Copenhagen, but there are lots of schools around there. And there are often kind of like blinker brands where they have executive MBA programs and masters of leadership programs and other programs where they’re trying to build them up into trying to grow them. And they actually have a need for people who either teach your specific subject matter area, or there’s just an opening in the curriculum in general, and you have the opportunity to pitch a syllabus. So short answer is you would cast a broad net,

 

14:00

fixating only on the dimensions that are absolutely necessary to you. And then we could talk a little bit about how to network your way over to the right people in those institutions. Okay, we’ll just say about that. So let’s say okay, I want to teach somewhere in New York City, because that’s where I live. And, um, you know, maybe something about consulting or something that I know, but what do you just walk in, you know, reach out to HR email, the dean, like, you know, coffee was a former professor, how do you do it? I think for, for the people here who are experienced industry professionals, and are good at networking over to, you know, the right part of it, or the parts that you’re aiming for is the Academic Director of different degree programs. So you can just search out the name of that person, but there’s someone in charge of the kind of the substantive side of what these degree programs is and if you can find who that person is, then you’re just kind of going through your two degrees of separation to find that person and have a chat. It’s all informational interviewing from there, so I would say try to find

 

15:00

Academic Director. All right, fantastic. Any of other of our panelists, Mary Kate, go ahead, sometimes be called Academic Director, program director, or sometimes they’re just like a lead professor of something you teach. And so I think how I got started was being a guest speaker. And it’s a, it’s a really easy way to get started. And I want you to think about adjunct on a continuum. So you could be just a guest speaker and show up occasionally. Then further on the continuum. Someone could say, could you deliver a class and it might be a shorter class, or it might be sort of an elective class. And as you go further down, you might actually be able to create the curriculum, and deliver it. So there’s, there’s kind of a range of opportunities. And first of all, I agree, I do it for the joy. There are a lot of benefits in doing this. So publications networking, I actually have one of my former students is now head of a particular

 

15:59

LA County Department of Health. So the network that you get out of it, I do agree with Sven the credibility.

 

16:07

So it’s, it’s certainly more you get more out of it. But that’s what got me into it.

 

16:13

But I would definitely reach out to people who are teaching courses somewhat similar to what you could teach, to get started. Okay, thank you. So that was an idea of just, you don’t have to start by teaching the whole course. But start as a guest lecturer get to know the university a little bit, then maybe

 

16:34

this kind of gets into a later question. But you also said, it seems like some because we had a lot of questions around how do you create the curriculum, it sounds like some courses, they may have a curriculum, off the shelf that you don’t have to create the whole thing from scratch, you can take a curriculum they already have and just deliver it. The other thing is, it’s going to sound obvious, but let people know you’re interested. So I was a guest speaker and I had someone say, I’d love to set up a meeting with you, can you help me find adjuncts? And I was like, Sure I can. What are you looking for? And? And finally, he said, Well, I know you’d never do it. We can’t pay you enough. But, you know, could you help us find people? And that’s what I said, You know what, I just would love to do it. And so letting people know that this is something of interest. It’s a funny thing that many people expect to be invited. So put yourself out there.

 

17:21

Thank you. Spin.

 

17:24

Yeah, I definitely want to second word Mary Kay just said, and I find it surprising how many full time professors don’t like to teach. So I’m very often getting these conversations in the in the hallway. How many classes do you have this quarter? Oh, I have three classes. And I hope it will be over soon. So that’s, I think important to understand for those who are interested in some teaching. And very often the full time professors are actually looking for someone else to at least come in for guest lecturer what Mercator said, and, and that’s, that’s really the foot in the door that they know actually that you can teach that you can interact with a class because you can be a great consultant, you can create great presentations, but it doesn’t make you a good educator. But once they see that you teach well, and they do interact with a class and it’s meaningful. They might say, well, what if we teach a class together? And then at some point, while

 

18:25

we have a gap in our teaching curriculum, are you interested in that? So so that is really something not to underestimate that they are basically constantly looking for someone to bring real world experience into the classroom. The other thing maybe to consider as well, there’s at Stanford, and I’m sure at other universities as well, a lot of continuing education programs on both the professional side of education. And that is separate from the undergraduate or graduate programs. But it still gets you the satisfaction of teaching something passing on your knowledge, gets you a title at the university, if that have meaning to people. And from there, it could also develop Oh, you’re doing the continuing education program. So maybe you’re interested in the graduate program as well. So it’s really a lot about networking. And one thing that comes to my mind with this is what’s the I forgot the name, but we ever talked about board memberships at one of the Umbrex meetings the other day, he said, Well, if you want to go on a board, and then it’s like, you want to become a member of a country club, and you walk through the front door and ask what’s the application?

 

19:41

That basically means you don’t know how it works. So that’s very similar here. You network your way in basically.

 

19:47

So we talked a little bit about how you might express your interest to the academic director.

 

19:55

What is the typical evaluation process? So you know, one question we have

 

20:00

and Rosie was do you need specific teaching credentials or certificates? Or how do they evaluate you? Do they typically ask you to go and guest teach a one lecture so someone can evaluate you like, what’s the sort of interview slash evaluation process look like? And either Adam, Mary Kate or Sven are one of the other panelists just raise your hand of who’d like to start answering that one. Leila, I’ll call on you. So what was your valuation process? Yes, I guess I was quite surprised, actually, that there was no process. But in both the cases, I forgot to mention, I’m also at the Copenhagen Business School running something for the MBA students. And in both cases, it was a close friend, colleague, previous colleague of mine who recommended me. So they took care of actually getting me on board. And I felt that was quite important. So it’s a bit related to your last question as well. So I think having somebody you know, internally who can vouch for you can make a great difference. And then they will know the procedures and who to talk to and ask.

 

21:04

And then they pretty much just let me go in front of the students without any further ado, no, no help. No examination. Evil in front of the students. All right, Adam, I had to work for you did it was there a test run or yet similar to Leila set for the first gig, which is, you know, they take it on faith, because someone knows you and they know that you’re going to do a good job. After you’ve done the first thing and you’ve taught something, then you have a track record, you may have a recording of a video of your lecture, you may you’ll probably have a syllabus that you’ve written, and you’ll have student evaluations. So there’s enough proof that when you take it to the next institution, they’ll feel reasonably confident that they haven’t screwed up by letting you teach a class. All right, and how about you spent?

 

21:47

Yeah, so but with the two universities, it was somewhat different. So at Stanford, it was that I was already a full time employee at Stanford and taught already in engineering, and then I was asked at the business school. So that was basically the trail of reference, I guess. But Stanford then also has a pretty rigorous evaluation system from the students. So if at the end of the quarter, it shows that you are really below average, then they will have a conversation with you. So at the beginning, they you might say, they might take a leap of faith. They say, Well, he’s taught elsewhere. So let’s give it a shot. At the Swedish University, I would say it was more rigorous, that they really wanted to get from me PhD certificates and teaching credentials, and even some publications, I think so. So they were definitely wedding it more in an academic way. Like, okay, checks, all the boxes are not. So it really depends, I guess, on the university. Fantastic. Okay. We’ve had several questions around. This is all nice, but like, what roughly is the compensation that we’re talking about? And how much time commitment does this take? So, you know, it could be like a nice hobby or a passion project. But you know, people want to know what they’re getting into. So maybe we won’t ask you for your specific compensation. But you know, if you could give us just a rough general idea, perhaps of what these typically pay to teach a course, and maybe give us a sense of what kind of time commitment it typically looks like. So any anyone willing to volunteer of our panelists here?

 

23:31

Yeah, I’ll throw out some numbers. So

 

23:35

it changes over time. But like, I would say, the range that I’ve seen is anywhere between, like $6,000 for a class for a semester to 15,000, and the time commitment. So let’s say that the median is 10, the time commitment for creating a syllabus from scratch, if you really care about what you’re doing is like 200 hours, right? So you’re getting 50 bucks an hour, basically, for your work. You know, like, you’re like you’re managing, like a retail store, the first time you teach it. Now, at subsequent times you’re teaching it’s much less work, you know, it might be 50 hours or the amount of time you spend, you know, teaching. So just for round numbers, like that’s, that’s those are the kinds of numbers I’ve seen, there’s a little special case, which is that you might also get some benefits associated with the teaching as in healthcare benefits, which are subsidized, so there is extra value there, but I’ll throw out those numbers and see if people react. Okay, Mary Kay. So pretty similar numbers. When I started a long time ago, it was roughly $1,000 for a class which was 90 minutes.

 

24:40

More, more recently, pre pandemic, it’s about $2,000 for a two hour class, and you either do a seven week, a 12 week or a 14 week program, and at first it might sound like a lot it’s not okay, and if you a two hour class takes you quite a long time to prepare. So it

 

25:00

really does come down to something like $100 an hour, maybe it’s 50, it depends. So the very first time you do it, right, and again, remember my guest speaker, you take over, you co teach you take over someone’s curriculum you develop, if you’re actually starting with a blank sheet of paper, because they’ve asked you to create curriculum, including create the assessment, create projects, so

 

25:26

you can’t live on this. So somewhere, I think, I think I earned like 12 to 15 1214 18,000. Never, never that much. The other thing you might want to think about is how this fits in. And if this is off topic, well stop me how it fits into your consulting. So if you’re committing to a class every single week, that can limit your consulting business if you travel a lot for consulting business. So the other way you can do this. So like the physicians, they actually did a week intense in person. For me, that was actually better because of the scheduling. Right? So you might want to think about what are you committing to? And then the money and then what’s the output? I’ll just add briefly to the other question, like the evaluation process. It’s surprisingly minimal. A, but they often will look at your publication. They’ll your your guest speaker, like slides.

 

26:24

Like,

 

26:26

we will meet a couple people there. I came up with accidentally, there we go.

 

26:32

Oops. So we owe me a very good doing okay, there we go. Okay, now I’m on mute. So just add evaluation is really minimal. But ways you can offer is, hey, here’s a white paper, I’ve written a publication. Here’s my presentation as a guest speaker, and all those things go. But the big evaluation, Someone’s probably going to listen into one class and the student evaluation is critical.

 

26:55

Okay.

 

26:57

Thank you, z. We haven’t heard from you. Do you want to go?

 

27:02

Did you want to weigh in on just like compensation and time commitment? Yeah, I was I was kind of just dropping some things in the chat. Well, I was I’m Professor of Practice at Michigan State University’s broad School of Business, in the Masters of Science degree in customer experience management, and is brand new program, you know, and all inaugural so I was paid extra the first year, because I had to build the course and create it. And so there was extra compensation involved in that. And then it’s, it’s

 

27:39

a semester cycle, and then plus a summer semester. And so when a new cohort kicks off, it kind of flows year by year as far as that is. And so with the rest of the faculty, I’m paid now at this point, just for the times that I do it, but it’s done on an annual basis. So I don’t know what the other folks experiences. But it’s a salaried position. But it’s like, like a proportion of a salary. You know, it’s not like a full time gig. But so, you know, for quite some time, I was paid for not doing anything, until I started building the course, and then started teaching. And then four months at a time, I’m still getting a check from MSU.

 

28:17

You know, because they spread it out over the full year.

 

28:20

Yeah, I don’t I don’t know if it’s, if it’s more like, Hey, here’s a check for teaching this term, or something like that for the other panelists, but it’s it, like I said, it’s based, I’m getting a W two and a salary type of a thing. It’s just, it’s just tremendously small.

 

28:35

Next topic is

 

28:37

we had this question in the chat, and it was one that was on my mind as well, which was

 

28:43

certainly awesome to kind of get the joy out of it. And the, you know, just sort of the inspiration, that’s one benefit that we’ve heard, and you feel compelled, like, you have to do it, Adam would be down in the subway like, you know, back just giving his course for for change. If they didn’t let him teach it, NYU.

 

29:04

In addition to that benefit, have any of you either a gotten consulting project leads that resulted in something from your teaching somehow? Or have you found that it helps you convert leads into confirmed projects because of the credibility like well, I teach it, you know, brown, this very topic. So in terms of the the sort of carryover spillover benefits to your consulting practice, I would love to hear interview your experience. Mary, Kate, would you like to start? Sure. Okay. So I have got clients from it. So sometimes people will reach out to other professors and say, Can you do some consulting and they’ll say no, and refer them to me. So I have got projects from this. I have got clients. My students have become my clients, which is fun. I’ve got team members as well. So the network I mean,

 

30:00

It is a tremendous benefit. And the credibility, I think is I’ve got some publications that I’ve written myself or CO written with other professors. So I think it does translate to business. All right, Adam, thank you. Okay. Yeah, I think the second part of what Mary Kay was saying I agree with, which is that there’s some indirect ways in which the teaching is going to play out and be synergistic with your consulting work. For me, it’s more synergistic with the writing that I do. And then the writing is what causes people to, to reach out to me writing on my blog, there is one direct way in which the teaching has led to gigs, which is I’ve adapted my classes that I teach at the schools to a corporate version of the training, which does pay normal rates. And so I’ve been I’ve been teaching that corporate version of this, which I wouldn’t have done if I hadn’t started by teaching an academic version of it. Okay, so that might be something to keep in mind, to really focus on the language of the contract to make sure that you’re, you have the right to port your IP to a corporate context. So it’s not because some universities might not permit that unless you had negotiated it.

 

31:18

Sven, what about you? Have you seen any kind of project leads come in? Yeah, definitely. So So project leads that, as Mary Kate also said, maybe former students, then become clients, or the organization’s reach out to me because they say, Oh, I know, this professor at the University. So and he’s also doing consulting. So it definitely nurtures your network. Absolutely. One thing that happens here relatively often, actually, in Silicon Valley that the students when they graduate, then they want to do their startup. And they asked me for an advisory role on the startup. So I ended up as an on the advisory board relatively often. And the other piece, will that you ask if

 

32:02

maybe a client or prospective client who reaches out and does that make a difference than that I am a professor. And yes, it does. The clients then say, Oh, he’s good. He’s a consultant. He wasn’t McKinsey. And he did this, and this and this. And he also lectures at the Stanford Business School. So it definitely gives you I don’t know, more, more standing more credibility. And sometimes even my clients like to brag about it, like, oh, we have this consultant. He also teaches at Stanford. So I see a lot of pluses there. Yes.

 

32:39

How can you? So you mentioned several benefits around just the networking and so forth? What are some ways to make sure you’re taking advantage of that? Like, are there opportunities to connect with other faculty members? Do faculty hang out together? Or do funders at the university ever meet with the faculty behind the scenes? What are some ways that if someone does go into this and best practices you’ve picked up over the years of, you know, making the full opportunity to build relationships? Nick, I’ll go with you stay busy. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Well, if you are part of the faculty of a program,

 

33:22

and in your adjuncts like this, you are not going to be alone. And they’re going to be people who are doing exactly what you’re doing. And if you’re not leveraging those, I mean, well, that’s, that’s an absolute no brainer. And I have been able to partner with some of the fellow some of my fellow professors practice. Absolutely. And in fact, given that they’re in the program, given that they’re teaching, they’re probably pretty doubled up on things, and they’re going to need some help as far as augmenting their own work with their own clients. So 100% that is, that is another great benefit of it. Okay, thank you, Mary. Kate, any tips on this? Yeah. So the first semester I taught, I literally went in to the university and left, and I realized at the end of it all, what a wasted opportunity. And so the second time, it was I actually said, Hey, is there a faculty meeting I can come to I’d love to understand more about this, is there a faculty this, so it can be very easy not to get the networking benefits equally? So, you know, ask for where they meet. And it was funny, because a lot of the permanent faculty were sort of like, oh, we’d love to have you we just, we thought it was too much to ask. So, you know, really put yourself out there and take advantage and and make it happen.

 

34:45

Anyone else on this topic and the other panelists on the on the networking, I was thinking my immediate reaction was, it’s not that much. But but then listening to our colleagues here, I realized no, that actually it’s a lot but it is

 

35:00

So in at least two layers, I would say there’s one layer, which is on the adjunct layer where you appear. And the other layer is like the full faculty or the the tenure track faculty. And they are I do experience, it’s a little bit of like, Oh, he’s one of the adjunct people. So that’s maybe just something to keep in mind. But the other piece, really, I mean, the university is your oyster, I mean, make it your network. And what I also appreciate about this is that you are part of an organization I mean, for, for better or worse, there’s some negatives to this as well. But also, let’s say, through the pandemic, that you have your briefings there, and you get updated on what’s going on here. Other things like all the conflicts that you have right now, so things that you would normally get from your employer, I mean, it is your employer, and it’s up to you whether you want to go to the faculty meetings, many online anyways. So you get your let’s say, corporate fix from from that as well, which I do appreciate, because it’s not as mandatory if, as if I was like a full time employee, but it’s really a great resource for me to stay on top of things.

 

36:21

Tell us a little bit about what it actually takes to develop a curriculum. So Adam, when you said it takes 200 hours,

 

36:29

blew me away, I always my mental models, I don’t know sit down for Saturday afternoon and write the week by week or something. Like, so what do what it hours? What, what is involved in building a curriculum? Yeah, I think as laypeople, we tend to use the words curriculum and syllabus interchangeably. But what we’re what I’m talking about is the syllabus for a particular course, right, which is to say, the series of topics you’re going to teach as the lectures across a 14 week semester, the actual PowerPoint slides to teach that the quizzes that you’re going to test people on the readings that you’re selecting the,

 

37:05

you know, the final project, like all of the stuff that you have to pack in to teach a class, that’s going to be really good. That is the syllabus is meant to be the kind of the term that encompasses all of that stuff. And so when you’re putting it together the first time, you know, yeah, it’s a lot of work to do that. Because like, like you underestimate things that are that seemed like they be easy, like, how would you create evaluation materials, quizzes, that you can actually evaluate people in an objective way. So they’re not going to be fighting you about their grave. And it’s also substantive and hard enough, but it’s not going to be so hard that people are going to get really low grades. And what’s the tension between the grades you give them relative to the evaluations, like there’s so much going on? That’s a lot of work. And that gets a lot easier after the first time you do it. And it really depends what kind of class it is, right? I mean, for instance, at Stanford, I got this seminar class woman, it’s really a lot about the discussion with with the students, and I bring in guest lectures. So it’s actually quite time consuming to get the guest lectures, and to have them all scheduled. And then of course, their last minute changes, sorry, I can’t make it kind of come next week instead of this weekend, something like that. So there’s an administrative part to it. Whereas for this class, actually, the content creation is not that much. I got an offer like a couple of years ago to develop a brand new class on automotive engineering at

 

38:33

State University here, I really, really wanted to do this, because in the end, I’m an engineer by heart. And I really wanted to do this, but it was just too much work to prepare this and I said, Sorry, people, if you have some existing material that I can start with, then I would really like to do this add new the teaching material really belongs to the previous teachers. So you have to start from scratch and that like a real way you really, really teach all the details. And especially then I think they wanted to do exams, like

 

39:08

three times throughout the semester. I said, that’s, that’s really too much. So it really depends is a seminar class is relatively straightforward, about a fall, teaching with all the details that really needs to be thought about.

 

39:24

I want to call in a new panelist, Jared.

 

39:28

Jared Lee, has been teaching at McGill University. And so Jared,

 

39:36

maybe you could add to some what we’ve been hearing particularly around you had a comment that you sent me direct chat on.

 

39:45

It’s sort of almost a cliche, but it’s, you know, it’s true, in fact, right, the how when you teach something, it really forces you to learn it in a much deeper way. Could you talk a little bit about how you’ve experienced that.

 

39:57

Jeremy, thanks very much. Well,

 

40:01

My USB seems to have not want my camera on. So, apologies for that I’ll keep flicking it on to jetters every now and then. Yeah, so I teach as a faculty lecturer at McGill University at the days of tell faculty of management. I’ve been a principal at Juniper, which is a consultancy based here in Montreal for the past five years. And well, to your point, if you really think you know, something, just wait until you have to teach it and to explain it to others. And to defend the theory against questions. It’s one thing to stand up in front of clients or to guide clients through a process. And we’ve all had that experience as consultants of thinking on our feet. But if you’ve got 180 students, who are the best and the brightest that your university has admitted, wanting to ask detailed questions, and you haven’t pre gamed the project, you’re not sort of in control of the next step, so to speak. And it’s a wide open opportunity for learning and reflection, you’ll get a lot of questions that demand you to defend what you think in terms of theory, but also to bring to bear practice. And there’s a lot of times that in order to prepare for that, you have to really be quite bulletproof in your own preparation and your own thought process and your own storytelling of the material or whatever it is. So it’s really helped me to learn deeply the theory, the frameworks, the tools, and then be able to port that over to my my projects, where I can lead clients through that as if it were the classroom sometimes and have the confidence and the credibility to do so. Thank you, Jared, on that topic that you that you sort of raised in terms of skill building.

 

41:38

Curious, any of the other panelists, do you feel that being an adjunct professor has built your ability in any ways, like public speaking or other sorts of aspects where, you know, it’s consultants occasionally will facilitate some session, but, you know, this gives you maybe more public speaking experience more managing a crowd? Talk to me about any skills that you feel that you’ve developed from this?

 

42:04

I would, I’d sign on to the idea that it helps with public speaking, anything that makes you speak clearly, to a very diverse audience, I think is helpful, the repetitions help, and you end up looking at the transcript or maybe watching some recordings of how you spoke, and realize all the dumb things you’re doing wrong. So I think it’s helpful for public speaking.

 

42:26

Thank you, Adam. vent? Definitely second that So sure, I mean, being in front of the class, and you don’t know what questions you get. And also, university like Stanford, can be pretty demanding. You constantly think, oh, man, these people pay a lot to be in my class, you’re better give them some good. So yes, that definitely helps with this. And also, I would say facilitation, because my class is the seminar style. It’s really good to keep a good discussion going but but lead it to a goal and make it meaningful, that the students leave in the end and said, Oh, we brought in our own ideas. And we got good input from the professor. It was what I prepared with reading reading materials. And now I learned this and I have a much better understanding. So to really facilitate this discussion, that there’s meaning in the end, that definitely helps me now with with clients as well. And related to what I said earlier that the clients then say, okay, not set up, like one strategy seminar for us to think that you do at Stanford. And when was like, Well, sure, I can do a strategy seminar for a client, which probably I wouldn’t be able to do if I wasn’t teaching this already. So it helps a lot. Yeah. And curious about

 

43:48

additional ancillary benefits that maybe seems small, but might be nice, like access to datasets or access to academic journal articles or access to other cool stuff. I’m not even thinking about, are there any sort of side benefits like that? People might want, Nick? Oh, absolutely. I was actually somebody else earlier was was talking about this in a pigmy. There’s all sorts of resources available in academia that you have no idea and they’re all free, because it’s academia. And you’re part of the faculty. For example, I live in Denver, and I have had books shipped from the MSU library, free of charge out here, read them, and then send them back access to online journals, I mean, anything. All I can just say is library, talk to the librarian, and they have got so much stuff, and it’s completely free. You use in your private practice. And you can also, you know, you say, Well, I’m thinking about this for the class and then obviously, doing research for a client perhaps. I mean, obviously, don’t don’t skate that line. But there’s so much academic interest

 

45:00

Russians have so much access to so much research and so many publications that that isn’t completely unsung benefit of this more than anything else, I think. All right, thank you see, Adam, turn to you. Yeah, go ahead. Just answering the same question. There’s direct and indirect benefits, I totally agree with that. And the part of the library that’s relevant to me is the database is right the ability to do to get access to, you know, online, like licensed big, expensive data sets, and terminals. That’s good. They’re also just leverage, I think spend sort of alluded to this, but your.edu email address is going to open up other kinds of doors, right? When you’re wearing your academic garb, so to speak, and you’re trying to have conversations with people for any reason, even if you’re like three lengths away from something that’s related to a consulting project, if you’re genuinely having that conversation, for the purpose of building a lecture for your course. And you’re not just like, cynically, you know, like, really tried to get in for a consulting thing. You can often have really good interesting conversations, which then incidentally, will lead to to work later. But like, as long as you’re doing, you’re being genuine about it, being an academic and say, Hey, I really want to pick your brain on this for a class I’m teaching is going to open up like a million doors for you.

 

46:15

Yeah, Adam Jarrett, how about you? Yeah, somebody asked in the chat specifically about health insurance. So it’s going to depend on the institution. And I think maybe one of our panelists mentioned before, for our institution at McGill, if you teach three sections within a given year, then you have access if you’re essentially considered a part time employee. So that’s what I do. It’s sort of the minimal load and then I get access to health insurance, but also to supplemental pension and investment plan, which for the Umbrex network, when many of us are small consultancies or individuals buying health insurance, supplemental health insurance can be quite prohibitive if you’re doing it as a single person. So yeah, that can be quite beneficial. Fantastic. Thank you.

 

46:55

Before everyone drops off, we are approaching the top of the hour here. And I’m mindful that before you leave, it would be very appreciated if you could put in the chat. What was one takeaway from today? One thing that surprised you that you heard one thing that got you inspired it just put one sort of takeaway in there? 200 hours scissor, it’s Yeah, well, big document. That’s always interesting to know what resonated with people what was surprising.

 

47:25

So thank you for that.

 

47:29

As well as if you have any final questions. And Megan, maybe you could test it on your on your own screen before you share to see if we can use the stream live to summarize these things or show them as they’re popping up. Look at this. Very nice. So you can, here’s the stream live going and your your comments are floating down and kind of we’re seeing them all stack up. Tetris

 

47:54

is

 

47:57

actually the back end of this activity type is called Tetris. So

 

48:02

isn’t this kind of fun to watch these kinds of things coming in? All right, thank you baggage, you can just remember, I’m not 200 hours, there was one class that Yeah, it took me 200 hours to create, it was really a passion to create it. But sometimes you’re just handed something that can either take more time or can take less. So you know, you can actually look at something and say, Wow, that’s just too much and do it in a really different way. So and once you’ve done it the first time, the second time, you still have to update at least you know, I’m sure Adam in your field, certainly in minds when things change even in, you know, year, this year, next year. So it does take time to create this whole content, the content is what you’re presenting the projects, the assessment, the pre work, the readings, kind of think of it as this package

 

48:53

of teaching, that. It’s not just you kind of show up and talk. And it was funny, someone mentioned one of our panelists said, even like bringing in guest lectures, you think, Oh, that’s really gonna save me some time. No, it won’t.

 

49:08

It’s great. And you meet some really cool people. But it takes genuine effort. So don’t underestimate but it may not be 200. And sometimes it’s really on that one. I guess everybody here has seen a university from the inside. So we all know that all classes are different, right? We know from sitting on the other at the other side. Some professors spent a lot of effort and creating all the slides and maybe all the equations and come up with a lot of examples. And others are great facilitators and communicates point. Even facilitation requires preparation or should be well prepared. But it’s not the same as if you’re writing like 120 Page textbook or something like this, it might be required. So really find out what you want to do. And if you start with a guest lecturing then then see what

 

50:00

Oh, how much preparation was this? Is that something that I want to do? 10 or 12 times in a row? Okay, so here’s the last question for the panelists. So give us like 45 seconds, because we have just nine minutes, 45 seconds. What’s one additional point or tip that maybe I could have asked you about, but I didn’t or that didn’t come up in the chat, you know, something about this experience that you think it’s helpful for other people to know. So I’ll start with you. Yeah.

 

50:29

Okay, I think if there is any major life choice that you’re going to make, you should probably have like three very different reasons for doing it. And so in the case of teaching, it should be you love it. You think it’ll be creative to your, you know, current consulting, because you are pretty sure that down the road, you’re going to want to be a full time teacher. Like that’s sufficient, right? But if you just have like one thing or being super instrumental about it, I don’t think it’s going to work. Okay, so the three reasons for life decisions,

 

50:59

marriage, good for all sorts of things having kids. Okay, thank you, Adam. All right. Next up, Jared, what is your 45 second kind of final final shot? Yeah, you’ll be surprised at how rewarding it can be. I agree with Adam have a really good reasons for doing it. But I am consistently overwhelmed with the amount of ideas and the the creativity of the students and how rewarding it is to see that journey, the deeper relationships you can build.

 

51:32

As my camera turns off that as as people come back and say, Oh, the one thing I remembered from my MBA was your course, or this is what I’m doing with the project. Now, it’s incredibly rewarding. Right? Nice. Mary Kay.

 

51:45

Yes, I’d say I mean, be really clear why you’re doing this. And therefore you will do it well. So if you are doing it to build a network, you will do it a little differently. For me, I think, okay, I made a lot of really cool people. I built a great skill set on how to structure for example, a structure a class, present and engage.

 

52:08

And it’s just, it’s good something to have fun, feed the song, get joy.

 

52:14

Thank you, Mary Kate. So then,

 

52:17

well, basically everything was has already been said, but but maybe how about this one? I think I mentioned in the beginning that I started this well, before I started at McKinsey. And when I was about to accept the offer from McKinsey, I consider really, really carefully if I can do this while be a consultant at McKinsey and still teach at the university. And for a moment, I thought like, well, maybe I have to drop it. And then thankfully, my wife said, You must be out of your mind that you’re giving up a lecture position at Stanford Business School. She was right. I’m glad that I kept it.

 

52:50

Alright, so stick to it, Leila.

 

52:53

Thank you, Sven. One last comment that I didn’t hear anyone said one thing that I really enjoy with the students is that they have to read their papers, which is, of course, a little bit time consuming, but it keeps me updated on the various sort of relevant and actual topics that they are working on and that are in the news. So that’s very, very interesting side benefit.

 

53:17

That was my last. Thank you, Leila. Z. Yeah, a couple of things. First of all, the second job is easier to get. It helped that I was already an assistant professor at the Air Force Academy in my reserve status. And just having that like, Okay, well, come on, come on in. And there was a lot of discussion earlier about, like, how did you get hired. And so that helped. Second, I just lean in again, to that guest lecturing thing speak at in someone’s class for free. And there’s your entree right there. I mean, you have to develop it that you have to be proactive, you have to ask you have to you have to probe and so forth. And then finally, I think it Leila kind of touched on this, but I say steal from your students. And I don’t mean that in any literal sense. But they’re these are people who are in the practice. These are people who are learning, these are people who are having experiences. And if you’re at an advanced enough stage that you’re being asked to teach, you might not be aware of all those brand new things that are going on. And so take it as a learning opportunity for yourself to be in the presence of people who are who are, you know, in the mud and ankle deep and doing this stuff in the mud? All right. That’s a military thing. Well,

 

54:30

in the Submarine Force, we tried to find a trick is to keep them out often.

 

54:36

Trying to keep them out off the planes tube. Yeah.

 

54:40

I mean, my two cents. I mean, it’s definitely just your question. Yes. It’s definitely beneficial in a lot of ways. It’s the status. It’s the learning, like Nick was mentioned. It’s, it’s a lot of things that you can get out of it, for sure. Is it worth it from a monetary perspective? Absolutely. I mean, you’ve seen all kinds of scenarios here.

 

55:00

from teaching in academics, institutions to trainings to even consulting, I think there’s a lot of angles, you can get consulting, you know, opportunities out of training for sure.

 

55:16

So, I would definitely explored and look at what other resources you have available to you to get you.

 

55:25

That kind of exposure. It’s definitely rewarding is my point. Thank you. Mahana. All right. And a final thanks to Megan for behind the scenes getting this thing pulled together. Appreciate Megan. All right, thank you. And we will wrap this up on time, we will, I believe have a recording that we can send out in case you wanted to see it again or for those who didn’t get here. And unless any of you speakers object, we’ll we’ll publish this as a podcast episode as well, to make it more widely accessible. This was a great discussion, I learned a ton. And so fun to hear. And a bunch of people in the chat I saw were inspired to go out and, you know, reach out to some academic officers and see if they can get a teaching gig as well. So I think we inspired some people today. Thank you to all the panelists.

 

56:11

You’re welcome. Thanks. Well, thanks, Megan.

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