Will Bachman, Jon Cobb
Will Bachman 00:01
Hello, and welcome to Unleashed. I’m your host will Bachman. If you visit umbrex.com/unleashed, you can find the show notes and transcript for this episode, and all 520 Something episodes we’ve done so far. And if you send me an email, I’d love to actually hear from listeners and just know who you are, what you like about the show. It’s email@example.com. My guest today I’ve been I’m really excited for this episode I’ve been following. I know John is a friend, and I’ve been following him on LinkedIn, John Cobb has just been crushing it on LinkedIn. We will hear some of the stuff he’s written. John, welcome to the show.
Jon Cobb 00:42
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here.
Will Bachman 00:45
So John, maybe why don’t we start, maybe we could start if you have some at the ready, I’d love you. So your posts on LinkedIn, follow a very distinctive style, you have this kind of clear square image post with a relatively short saying, and as your name and I think, some other elements to it, but it’s basically a pretty just a quote, like a quote, kind of post. And these things are crushing it, read a few of them for us, just so we can jump in and get a sense of of what you’ve been posting.
Jon Cobb 01:20
Thank you very much. So the biggest post I’ve had this year is about 236,000 likes or reactions, if you will, almost 18 million impressions now. And it’s just a really short story. It says, When I got laid off, one of my managers never said by my other manager made it her personal mission to help me find my next opportunity. Leadership is about looking out for people, whether it’s in your job description, or not. And I put a couple of hashtags on there. Leadership and Culture change. And I think that this post resonated with a lot of people, one because of the timing of you know, so many layoffs happening across different industries. And also, because people appreciate that empathetic leadership style. They want to work in an environment where people care about each other. And I was able to tap into that. And because of that, it resonated with a lot of people and gaining momentum, and ended up doing pretty well. Pretty well. 236,000 engagements likes 80 million views. That is crazy. Read it, read it, read it, read it, some other ones and what like a authentic kind of post. That’s it. And that’s the kind of posts that people they want to like, right? They want to share it with others. And they want to be seen as favoring a post with that point of view, share some other ones that you’ve done. Yeah. So the other one that is still going here after a month, actually, it’s still increasing. Just says I’ll hire someone with the right mindset over someone with the right resume any day, skills are easier to teach than attitude. And it’s short, it’s to the points. But it reminds people that there are things that matter more than the brand names that are on a person’s resume, and to look deeper into the motivations for that person and the why behind why they’re interested in a job. And I think that we’ve all been in a position before, where we felt like we could do the job, we could do a great job, we just needed the opportunity to prove ourselves. And I’ve been in that position. And candidly, I’ve only had the success that I’ve had, because people have given me a chance at times. So that’s something that really resonates with people as well. And that’s about 127,000 likes right now. 4.7 million views. That is crazy. Thank you. Let’s let’s do one or two more. These are fun to hear. And thank you. Absolutely. So one that I wrote a few months ago, it says don’t take the job that pays the most take the job with people who will help you grow the most. And that’s about you know, 5700 likes right now 340,000 impressions. But I think, again, it’s this common situation that people are in where maybe they’ve had a job offer or a potential job, that that paid a lot but they felt like it wasn’t right for them. And I see a lot of people get trapped in this situation where they’ve got the golden handcuffs, right. They’re making great money compared to anything they’ve made before. But it’s maybe not the right fit for them or it pays more now, but it doesn’t have the long term growth opportunities. And you really need to think long term about your career, what makes sense for you, aligning with what you enjoy what your key skill sets are, and adopt that long term mindset. So, you know, my goal is just to try and challenge people to think about their careers in the right way to adopt the right perspectives. To help them be successful and more happy in the long run.
Will Bachman 05:03
Yeah, now, correct me from I think you’re running the job search boot camp or career boot camp, remind me I’m sure that name, your name, your practice.
Jon Cobb 05:12
Yeah, job search. So my company is John comm coaching. And I have an app that I built called the job search boot camp. It’s a comprehensive tool to help people identify what mistakes they might be making in their job search process, and adopt a more strategic approach. Because what I see a lot working with people who are on the job market is they get laid off or they graduated from school or something happens. And they’re looking for their next job opportunity. And so naturally, they jump in and they start applying to jobs they’re interested in. And when they don’t get those jobs, they get rejected a few times, they start to get more desperate, they start to apply to jobs that are kind of outside of their core expertise in applying to more and more easy apply jobs on LinkedIn, until they get to the point where they’ve applied for 200 things. And you know, they’re they’re frustrated that they’re not getting the interviews, or they’re not getting the offers. And so I challenge people to step back and think more strategically about their job search, and do the networking. Before they apply, try to get the referrals before they apply. Think carefully about the companies that they really want to work for. And if they do that, then they can apply with a full quality application. Because a lot of people see getting hired as a numbers game. They look at it quantitatively. And they say I’ve applied for 500 companies, why haven’t I got hired yet? Well, if you’re running, you know, in the Olympics, and you’re slower than everybody else, you’re probably going to lose just about every time. And so we really want to focus on quality and putting out the best application that we possibly can, during our research on the company, networking, understanding what drives them. And when you do that, you have a much higher success rate. And so my app has an audio course, that walks people through all these stages, how to network correctly, how to reach out to people on LinkedIn, you’ve never talked to you before, how to build a resume that gets people’s attention, how to interview and stand out. And I really believe and I’ve seen that when people follow this structured approach, and they get good at the job search process, they are much more successful. And they make more in less time they get hired faster. But you know, getting getting a job is a skill set all its own, you can be the best consultant in the world or the best software engineer in the world. But getting the job to do that work is a very different skill set than doing the work itself. Yeah. So I just tried to help people build the skill set to get the job that they deserve.
Will Bachman 07:49
Okay, so you have job search bootcamp, which is an app. So that’s a, is it strictly an audio course? Are there like exercises or interactive elements to it? What do people get with it?
Jon Cobb 08:03
Yeah, there’s the audio course, it also has resources, there are resume templates that I highly recommend. Those are based off the Harvard Harvard Business School, resume templates, it has cover letter templates, it has negotiation letter templates, it’s got a community forum where you can send me messages, and I can answer your questions directly. So there’s a few different things in there. But really, the course is what I think that people will get the most value out of, and it’s only, you know, a few dollars a month right now, I’ve made it as cheap as possible, because I know how hard it is for people who are unemployed and looking for opportunities. So I love to work with people one on one, I’m happy to help people, I do a lot of dedicated coaching for career searches. But I tell people, you know, if you’re strapped for cash, go through the app, go through the course. And it’s really gonna help you get hired faster and make more.
Will Bachman 08:58
And that’s a nice way for people who can’t, you know, it’s not the right time for them to get with you one on one, but you have something to offer them. So that’s a nice idea for consultants to have sort of a paid asynchronous offering. So in terms of your coaching practice, tell us a bit about your focus. Is it primarily around sort of the job search or career coaching? Or is it more of a broader kind of executive coaching type private practice? Tell us about your coaching? Yeah, so.
Jon Cobb 09:27
So I left Deloitte Consulting a few years ago and started my own practice, and ended up landing my first contract with a fortune 50 software company, and focused on business consulting for several years. But I found that my passion was helping individual people be successful and retake control of their lives. And of course, getting a new career finding a new job is a huge part of retaking control of your life. But I work with people across different elements of their life. and challenges that they face. So really, I have a life coaching practice now. And I get to help people who are entrepreneurs looking for funding or bootstrapping a company. In addition to the career coaching that I do, I do work with people in terms of relationship challenges, and their mindset, developing and cultivating a mindset of success. You know, getting back into fitness routines, and all of that. So I do have a broad life coaching practice. But of course, career coaching is a huge part of that.
Will Bachman 10:37
I’d love to hear a bit about how you developed the approach that you’re doing with your LinkedIn posting. Now, there was probably some trial and error and experimentation, you probably didn’t get 17 million views on your first post, tell us about the process that we went through and like, how often you’re posting and you know, the different formats you may have tried?
Jon Cobb 11:00
Yeah, so some of the early advice I got was that, if you don’t know what your voice is, then you probably aren’t speaking enough. And I’ve found that the best way to find your voice is just to start saying what matters to you. And so I began posting about what mattered to me, which is work culture, helping people, you know, make progress personally and professionally. And over time, I refined my voice more and more. And I found what the overlap was between what I cared about, and what I had to offer, the value I had to offer and the people who found that value and appreciated it. And so it is a process, it’s definitely trial and error. In fact, I was just writing a post about how you have to experiments, in order to find what works for you, whether you’re experimenting with different careers early in your career journey, or your posting contents, the more little experiments you run, the more you’re going to find where those success indicators are. And you can drill down into what seems to work, but you have to run the experiments. Yeah, so so. So when you committed
Will Bachman 12:13
when you started out like it tell us like, How often were you posting? And did you start out with this pure text post? When did you land on this sort of square image post with the quotes?
Jon Cobb 12:24
Yeah, so I call those a thought graphic, because it is a picture of text. And they’re really just thoughts. And I learned this from watching some other people and just being curious and seeing what was working for other people. And I noticed a couple of thought leaders on LinkedIn who were having a lot of success with their posts and started trying to dissect what they were doing and understand, you know, what was different between them and what other people were doing. And I noticed that, for one, their text was bigger, when you have an image a picture of your text, you’re able to take up a lot more real estate on the LinkedIn scroll feed, than if you just type in to a normal text post. So I think that’s one of the biggest things, taking up the real estate, because we’re in an attention economy. There are so many different content creators on social media, if you can take up a little bit more real estate, and make it easier for people to read what you have to say, that’s gonna go a long way. And then the second part is making the idea or the thought easy for people to quickly identify with. So you know, LinkedIn is not the place to write a long, complicated post. Maybe that would be good for an article. It’s not quite Twitter either where you’re as limited on characters, but just because you can type more characters doesn’t mean you should the the easier it is for somebody to understand what you’re trying to say. That’s going to make it easier for them to like or react or leave a comments or identify with it, or follow you quickly than if you write something that takes a lot of energy and effort. Because you imagine people standing in line at the grocery store or something. They’re going through their phone quickly. It needs to be something that resonates in half a second.
Will Bachman 14:16
And so did you were you did you make a practice of posting every day and trying out different formats or?
Jon Cobb 14:25
I have tried different formats. I tried to balance it. I really enjoyed doing polls. It’s interesting to see what people respond how they respond. I do write some longer personal stories. And my goal is to post twice a day right now. Wow. Usually I average one to two a day, occasionally three times a day, but there are days I miss you know, maybe I should be more disciplined, but there are days where I’m not feeling I don’t know inspired. I don’t have anything ready or Are i I’m out on the water or something. And I’m okay with missing the day, occasionally. Because I don’t want LinkedIn to control my life. Right? It’s great consistency is one of the key ingredients to success. But it’s not the number one priority in my life to make sure that I, I post every day, it’s more important for me to work out, spend time with my family, you know, take care of the people that I’m coaching. So I have to find the right priority level, but it is high, and I do have to push myself. And, you know, I look at how often I’m posting. And sometimes I look back and say, I missed, you know, three or four days this month, then I could be reaching more people if I was a little more committed. So it’s important to reflect as well on what’s working and not working. But of course, consistency is one of the major keys to success and social media and LinkedIn because it builds on itself over time. And now I have, you know, 20 or 30 posts that are all still active that I’m getting likes and comments and reshares from, and that wouldn’t be happening if I was posting once a week, right? So it really builds on itself.
Will Bachman 16:11
Tell us a bit about how you nurture these posts. Like, once you post you know, I’ve heard that you spoke that you get a lot more acceleration. If you’re interacting with people engaging with comments, do you sort of set aside an hour after your post goes live to interact and respond to people,
Jon Cobb 16:29
I do try to be very active in the first hour, I actually tried to respond to every comment left on all of my posts. And that’s a bit overwhelming. Sometimes I’ve had posts with, you know, I don’t know, eight to 10,000 comments. And I’ve personally responded to many of them. I won’t say all but but a lot of them. The first 20 minutes after you post is the most important, that’s when the algorithm is kind of evaluating how much people are interested in your post. So if you can block that timeout, it’s really helpful to respond to every comments. If somebody reshares your post, you know, like that reshare thank them for sharing it, leave some thoughts, if you want to add an additional comment for For context, or to add to what your posts said, then you can do that and wait a few minutes after you first post. So maybe, you know, five to 10 minutes after you post, you leave a comments. Or if you want to leave a link, wait 10 or 20 minutes to leave a link. Because LinkedIn does not like links that take people off of the platform, even if you leave a link to one of your articles, and it’s on LinkedIn, it will, it will lower the amount of exposure your post has, just because there’s a link on there. Because they don’t want people to leave the platform, I don’t think it necessarily interprets the difference between a link to your website or a link to YouTube, add a link to an article that you have on LinkedIn. So just be careful not to have those links in your actual post. And if you put them in the comments, wait a few minutes after you post to put those on there.
Will Bachman 18:12
Now, tell us what you have learned about you when you do have one of these posts that’s starting to perform pretty well. How are you trying to take advantage of it in terms of trying to you know, stay in touch with people or get them to sign up on a newsletter or just sign up for, you know, something that’s relatively low barrier? connection request, get them to follow you, you know, you know, get them to sign up for your app. Yeah, so tell us about that.
Jon Cobb 18:45
So I think of this in terms of the value ladder value ladder that I learned from Russell Brunson of Clickfunnels. And you want to start with something really small, like adding them to your email list. And you know, there may be a lead magnet where you offer them a free resource, maybe a free digital book or something, if they give you their email address, so you can put that in the comments and say, you know, I’d love to share this resource with you. Click here to get your free ebook or something. And that’s a great way to build your email list. And
Will Bachman 19:20
and are you doing that? I haven’t seen you do. I mean, I haven’t seen that on your post that went really big. Do you have do you have lead magnets and stuff that you’re doing them?
Jon Cobb 19:29
I have some magnets I’m working on I have not been collecting email addresses. And I’ve realized more over the past couple of weeks here, just how important that is. Because when you have your own email list, you control your access to the audience. And when you have a social media following, you’re at the mercy of the algorithm. Yes. So if the algorithm doesn’t like your post, and LinkedIn really does not like marketing posts, you know, it’s funny because you want to essentially market yourself on social media. But if you do that the algorithms really going to penalize you. And so you talk about things indirectly, that are valuable for other people. And then you can leave the comment afterwards, it says, Hey, if you like this, please follow me for more, or please click here to sign up. So collecting emails is something that I need to work on, I need to finish the lead magnets that I’m working on. And then I’m planning to launch my own series of webinars in the near future to talk to people about how I can support them through digital courses that I’m wrapping up, and one on one coaching as well.
Will Bachman 20:38
Okay, so it sounds like you, you haven’t yet implemented like the kind of email lead magnet collection system. For listeners, one place that you can do that is on your LinkedIn profile, like right kind of below your name and your title, there’s that place where you can put a link in there, and you can name the link. So it could be something like, you know, get the compendium of my best posts, you know, it could be something like that, click here, people go to a simple, clean web page, where all they have to do is put in their name and email and they get like, you know, the 5050 job hunting tips or something, right?
Jon Cobb 21:19
Yeah, it does not need to be a 300 page, ebook. It can be a one page resource. And so I need to do more work here. You’re the master that skill. I mean, you have incredible digital resources that are invaluable to independent consultants. So you’ve got that in spades right now. But that is something that I need to work on more right now. My link on my profile says, John Cobb coaching.com, which is my website, no, agent, John, but I probably need to change that to something more compelling that says, you know, click here to get your free ebook or whatever. Yeah. To really compel people. Yeah,
Will Bachman 22:03
or like 15 job hunting tips or something. Exactly. So when what sort of conversion, have you seen, I mean, you are at the kind of Six Sigma of what the rest of us can hope to do. Right, you know, 17 million views, my God, What? What? You know, so I’m curious to hear sort of the impact, you know, when you get that many views, how does that translate into, you know, new coaching clients, you know, some of those people reach out to you and say, I liked your post so much, I’d like you to coach me, or, you know, getting your job. You know, the job bootcamp app, what, what have you seen in terms of the impact, it’s nice to be so famous, right. But
Jon Cobb 22:49
little by little, I do have a consistent stream of people that reach out to me, and ask about coaching or courses. And, you know, the challenge is the product market fit. Because people who are unemployed or just got laid off or had been looking for work for three months. without much success, they’re less likely to invest in a high ticket item, like a one on one coaching, even though that might be extremely valuable for them. I mean, I’ve worked with people and help them negotiate, you know, another 40,000, in annual salary. So I see the ROI. And I’ve gotten much better at helping other people see it, but it’s hard to sell those high ticket items. And so just understanding my customer base more, and the people that I can help, having a digital resource that’s $150 is much more reasonable for them. And then getting them into a webinar, where I can walk them through the value help them understand and answer their questions. I think that’s going to be a better model than what I’ve done in the past, because it’s hard to have leads come in or interested in coaching, and have to vet them, and is a really high ticket item for this. This type of work, so but you can absolutely expect to get leads off of posts. I don’t have an exact number of how many people have messaged me, you know, versus my impressions, or how many customers I have versus impressions. I need to figure that out. Actually, that’s good KPI. But it does definitely lead directly to business opportunities depending on what industry you’re in.
Will Bachman 24:38
I’m impressed that you’ve been able to respond to such a high percentage of the comments. If you get like 10,000 comments it’s actually becomes very difficult even to get down to the comments that you haven’t replied to because like LinkedIn doesn’t really isn’t really built for that. So you can scroll scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll for like an hour and then you finally get to a common meant that hasn’t been replied to. And then like LinkedIn will have like a little hiccup and you have to start all over again. You can’t just like zip right down.
Jon Cobb 25:08
The hiccup? Yes. So couple strategy strategies for that one, I do have the option to sort or filter. My I guess it’s a sort my comments my most recent. So if you look under your picture where it says add a comment to your own post, it says most relevance, and then there’s the most recent option. So that’s helpful to find the comments that I have not responded to yet. But I don’t know if everybody has that, because it has these features that they roll out.
Will Bachman 25:39
I think that that incrementally, I mean, at least I have that I think that’s universal. But that becomes an issue. If the comments are coming in so quickly, you can’t even keep up with them. And then it’s buried 1000 deep, they can be hard to find. So they don’t have a very good filtering feature for like, show me the comments that haven’t been replied to yet.
Jon Cobb 26:00
Yeah, I wish they had that. I wish the direct messages were much easier to manage. I wish they had different, you know, folders that I could create and more functionality there. So I’ve talked to some people at LinkedIn about trying to add some of that.
Will Bachman 26:16
Well, there’s other tricks of use there. Well, there is a tool I will share with you, which I just learned from another episode, recent one with Brian Ortiz, where there’s a tool called Lead delta, which you might look into, which plugs into LinkedIn, and lets you manage your LinkedIn messages. It has templates you can use it has lets you filter sorter and tag and so forth, and a little bit more manageable way. So that might be one thing to look into.
Jon Cobb 26:50
Yeah, thank you, I’ll definitely look into that. One thing I’ve learned is that LinkedIn does not like third party tools that, you know, access the system for you. I had a problem with LastPass, which is a password manager, LinkedIn. Put me in LinkedIn jail, they blocked me because they didn’t like me having that tool just last week,
Will Bachman 27:13
just on LinkedIn. Okay. Yeah. I have not had a problem with that my whole team, we all have LastPass. I’m interested in that. Yeah. My whole team,
Jon Cobb 27:22
maybe because my executive assistant was any different location or something? I’m not sure. Okay. But I think it’s kind of hit or miss.
Will Bachman 27:30
Jon Cobb 27:32
So that’s, that’s one thought there. But there are different features that not everybody has, for example, I know, some people can pin one of their comments to the top of their post, which is really helpful if you’ve got your little sales pitch there. And so what I’ve said typically is, hey, you know, if, if you’re in career transition, are you looking for help, there are three ways I can help you, you can either follow me for insights, or you can download my app and go through the job search bootcamp course, or feel free to reach out to me about one on one coaching, and kind of give people options, and let them decide what the best way is for you to help them.
Will Bachman 28:13
That’s cool. I don’t think I have that where you can pin a post to the top. That’s
Jon Cobb 28:19
I actually don’t either, but I know, some people in the hundreds of 1000s that do. So hopefully it comes to the rest of us soon.
Will Bachman 28:26
Yeah, that would be a good thing to have. Yep. I don’t see that. Yeah, I mean, it’ll put the most relevant and sometimes your own comment will become the most relevant if a few other people like it or something. But that’s, that would be nice to be able to pin something there.
Jon Cobb 28:42
It would be there’s also the ability to schedule a post Yeah, into the future. I think they let you schedule a week out. So that’s a relatively new feature. And I’ve also noticed that there’s a difference between whether you’re, you know, on Google Chrome, or you’re on edge or something or on a MacBook versus a PC, you might have different functionality available. Is that right? No kidding. Yeah, cuz they’ll roll it out to one and not the other first.
Will Bachman 29:09
So yeah, I have been using this scheduled post tool. And is there a particular time of day where you post typically,
Jon Cobb 29:21
I think it’s important to be consistent, because you’ll have an audience that is typically on around the same time and you want people who are used to seeing your posts. So I usually post around 8am, and then maybe four or 5pm. If I post twice in a day. That’s worked for me, arguably, I should post earlier in the morning, since I’m on the west coast. It’s already 11 for people on the East Coast by then. But you know, it’s a balance of what works well for LinkedIn and what works well for you. And your schedule.
Will Bachman 29:52
Well, you can it’s also kind of where the bulk of your your people are. And if you want to be up at five in the morning, your time to be responding to all Comments. Absolutely. A little rough. Absolutely. Yeah. So that’s also the guidance that I’ve heard from a few people is posting in the morning, I’ve heard, you know, 7am 8am. I think Justin Welsh does 8am Eastern, or his time, because that gets people if a post is doing well, it will build over the course of the day. And a lot of people will be checking LinkedIn kind of before they start their normal workday, maybe at nine o’clock. So they kind of quickly check their phone, they see a post, and then they might be off LinkedIn from nine till 12. And only check it launcher, you know, exactly, exactly. See when I catch a work lunch after work. Yeah, yep. So except for like,
Jon Cobb 30:43
an earlier in the week to you know, if I have a post that I feel is going to do really well. I’d rather posted on a Monday or Tuesday than on a Friday, because things die a little bit during the weekend. Yeah, they
Will Bachman 30:53
die. Even if it does well on Friday, and it’s like Cruzan, it will just kind of peter out over the weekend. And somehow LinkedIn isn’t smart enough algorithm to realize, well, it was doing well on Friday, we should show it a lot more people. They just people just kind of they peter out. So
Jon Cobb 31:12
yeah, it’s it’s interesting. It’s not purely based on like a percentage of how many people react to it, because I’ve had posts that started off well above average. I mean, if you have a post that gets consistent 4% engagement. Let’s say it has 500 views, and you have 4% engagement, that’s that’s doing pretty well, for LinkedIn, you would expect much higher ratios of engagement. If you’re on Instagram. I mean, I I’m not big on Instagram right now. But I’ve had posts that are at 30% of people that see it, liking it, wow. Yeah. I don’t have a huge following. But a pretty high percentage. And yet, Instagram does not keep that post going, which is really frustrating. So whether your post goes well or not is not strictly based on the number of people that engage with it, it’s certainly an important factor. But I believe that the algorithm is looking for certain subjects and for certain keywords. And it really matters that they are related to kind of what you’re known for. So if you set up the, I think it’s called the influencer option for your LinkedIn profile, it’s called Creator mode. So if you’re under creator mode, you have hashtags that you want to be known for, that you want to talk about. And so my profile says talks about coaching, leadership, career pivot, culture, change, and mindset coaching. And you know, maybe I should pick more popular hashtags, but there’s a case to be made for picking more niche, hashtags, too. But when you talk about those subjects that you have identified, you want to be known for, and you use those hashtags. LinkedIn is going to like your posts more. So they’re really trying to help people identify and build their audience within specific niches.
Will Bachman 33:09
Yeah, now I see that you use hashtags. And I’m curious, your philosophy on that some guidance that I’ve seen says, kind of hashtags are sort of dead. And they’re actually almost a negative that you should not use hashtags, but you use them in your posting very well. Tell. Tell me about you.
Jon Cobb 33:28
Yeah, so when you turn on creator mode, in LinkedIn, it gives you kind of a guide, there’s, there’s a guide, and it says, you know, we recommend using, I think, two to four hashtags. And so I’ve heard different things from different people who say, you’ve got to have three to five other people saying no hashtags. But this is LinkedIn itself telling you, we like to see two or three hashtags. And so I usually keep it to two or three. I think I think they’re probably giving you that advice for a reason. And I do think that they penalize you if you have too many. Are there people that click on a hashtag and scroll through everything that has been tagged to that? Yes. Is it maybe as many people on LinkedIn is, you know, other platforms, Instagram or something? Probably not. But I think it does help.
Will Bachman 34:19
Yeah, I definitely say keep it to no more than three because some people throw like 30 hashtags on there. And it just looks very spammy. Yeah. And
Jon Cobb 34:28
the guidance is the same for emojis to they do not want to see 20 or 30 emojis. Yeah. Same thing for tagging people. If you want to tag people in your posts, there’s some people that tag me. I got tagged today, and this person had tags probably 100 or 200 people in his posting comments. And, you know, the hope is, I’m gonna reach more people, they’re going to react, they’re going to be grateful that I tagged them and my post is gonna go viral. And LinkedIn really shuts that down. Because they look at how many people respond if you You tag somebody and they don’t respond, then it doesn’t look good
Will Bachman 35:03
for your post. Right? It’s like, either a big, positive, big negative, if you tag someone they respond, then it’s a big positive. But if you tag a bunch of people and they don’t respond, then it’s like a real pillar to your post. In fact, I hate it when people do unless it’s like, just me and they think I would be interested, you know, just personally like because they know that I’m an independent consulting or something. If someone tags me in a group of 30 people, I like go and untag myself, which I think is like a, like a double, triple negative, because I just, I don’t understand like that. Right, right. We’re getting down into the minutiae here. But you know, it, you’re really you’ve really mastered stuff. So have you I’m curious if you’ve seen, you know, talking about being on target or on topic, have you done some posts that you thought, hey, this is like a pretty good post. But maybe it was a bit off your normal focus topic area, and it just sort of didn’t perform the way you were hoping it would?
Jon Cobb 36:03
Yeah, I’m trying to think of an example. You know, I’m an entrepreneur, I started my own company. And so I love to talk about entrepreneurship. And that is a small subset of my audience. And so I should not be surprised if one of my entrepreneurship posts does not do as well, because it’s kind of irrelevant for three fourths of my audience or something. Although I did a poll recently, and more than half of people said that they would like to start their own business. So I thought that was interesting. But, of course, far fewer people actually do. So you know, there’s the possibility that if you talk about something that is off subject for you, that you are going to alienate part of your audience, they might even unfollow you, thinking that you are irrelevant for them. So the more that you can focus on a very specific message, the better.
Will Bachman 37:00
Yeah, it’s like, it’s a big leap for them to unfollow you, you’d have to really start annoying people posting a volley about just some super random stuff. But if, like just the act of ignoring the post, or not engaging with it, and lowering your engagement rate, can quickly kind of kill it if you’re way off topic. So
Jon Cobb 37:22
definitely, in your tone, too, you know, like, I’ve taken a little bit more, I guess, of an edgy tone, if you will, something I’ve learned from Justin Welsh, and it makes your posts more thought provoking, and maybe I don’t know controversial. But I would never say something controversial that I didn’t truly believe. So I realized you have to be careful what you say. Because, you know, it might just go viral. And you want to be known for what you want to be known for. So, gotta be careful what you say. But one more thought on that, if I could, is, you know, a lot of stuff you post is not going to work out, I still have posts that get like 12 likes sometimes. And you just got to say, okay, you know, that’s interesting, I can learn from that. I wonder, what was different here? You know, what was my tone? What were the specific words I used? What time that I post. So take all that feedback back. But when I tell people to experiment, they say, Well, what if people don’t like what I post? And the answer is, well, then LinkedIn is not going to push it as far. So it’s actually working in your favor. Yeah, right. Something is liked by a lot of people, it’s gonna get a lot more attention. People don’t like it. Not that many people are going to see it. So it makes it much easier for people to experiment without worrying about ruining their reputation.
Will Bachman 38:47
Right, exactly. It’s not like every post that you do is going to be seen by 17 million people. Right? Only the good way. So
Jon Cobb 38:55
exactly. Yeah, that was a tough post. Because, you know, it’s talking about me getting laid off a few years ago. That’s, that’s pretty personal. It’s hard for me to talk about I think that’s another aspect of what people appreciate it is. There’s some real sincerity there. Yeah. And I was willing to be vulnerable.
Will Bachman 39:12
It was vulnerable, but it was also a message that kind of people want it’s something that people want to be seen as liking and sharing, like, Oh, yes, people you know, managers should go the extra mile and take care of their people. Right. So people want to be seen as promoting that All right. Well, valuable lessons for me here on on managing and building a following congratulations to you on on millions and millions of views. And crazy quarter million interactions. It’s just insane. They must have you on their like their, you know, status board. They’re like LinkedIn headquarters. There’s nothing when a post does that imagine Isn’t that someone is looking at it personally and tracking it for something?
Jon Cobb 40:04
Yeah, I don’t know how all of that works, I have been invited to respond and help build some of these AI enabled articles that LinkedIn is building. So that’s been nice. And they’ve they’ve said, hey, you know, we’d love your help to contribute to these articles. And if you do that will, will give you a badge that you’re a top voice for, for something or other. So I need to, you know, respond to more of those. And I really appreciate that from LinkedIn. But being one of the top voices there’s there’s a very high standard for the actual top voice batch, you know, that Simon Sinek and Bill Gates have, yeah, but they they’re definitely paying attention at some level. I think
Will Bachman 40:47
that’s very cool. All right, John, a great speaking with you, for listeners that want to find out more about your coaching and about your app, your tool, give us the links again.
Jon Cobb 41:00
Yeah, so my website is John Cobb coaching.com. J on not Jo HN. And they can also email me at help at John Cobb coaching.com. Or just look for me on LinkedIn, I’d be happy to connect with you still, I have spots left to connect with people. Won’t for long, though, I’m running out of those connection spots. So love to connect with you. And if you do, please send me a quick message and love to virtually meet you.
Will Bachman 41:29
It’s there have been doing triage and unfollowing. Disconnecting with people to make some more space.
Jon Cobb 41:36
Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s nice that you can have an infinite number of people follow you. I will miss being able to actually connect with people. After a while here, I’ve got a few 1000 connections left, actually. But that’s another you know, piece too, if you want to grow, since connection invites to people and I don’t sell people anything. I think that is a potential business opportunity. But I just don’t like the idea of messaging someone and saying, Hey, if you’re interested in coaching, or if you’re looking for a job, you know, I can help you. I genuinely prioritize meeting people, I just say, hey, it’s great to meet you. And leave it at that. So the last thing I want to do is come across as a salesperson, I don’t do any outbound marketing. And that’s why I like LinkedIn, organic growth, because it’s been described to me as the difference between renting and owning, where you pay for an ad, you’re renting that attention span. Or if you pay for a marketer that helps you with outbound sales, you’re renting their time, versus you know, kind of owning the the attention where you build your audience. So anyway, that’s that’s just part of how we see the difference.
Will Bachman 42:48
I agree with that. John, thank you for joining today.
Jon Cobb 42:52
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon.