Episode: 502 |
Jessica Magoch:
The Musicology of Sales:


Jessica Magoch

The Musicology of Sales

Show Notes

Jessica Magoch is a jazz musician and sales expert who has put her two skills together to help others. She started her sales career when she was auditioning for college musical theater programs and realized that the best job for her would be one with flexibility – sales. She quickly excelled in the field and went on to work for a company that she helped build from zero to 100 million in revenue. After leaving that company, she started her own consulting and coaching business, where she helps women-led social enterprises learn how to sell.

How to Improve Your Sales Technique

Jessica explains that people who are successful in sales often have an inexplicable thing that cannot be taught. This is because they are able to connect with people emotionally, which is something that can be learned. She explains that music is the fastest way to affect someone’s emotions and that using it in a sales conversation, it can make a difference.

The conversation discusses the idea that people make admission decisions based on emotions and then back them up with logic. The idea is from the study of emotional intelligence. The study found that information travels through the amygdala first before it hits the frontal cortex. The amygdala is where emotions happen, and it is also where gut reactions are. The study also found that the information in the logical part of the brain is very limited. The conversation then discusses how to incorporate these insights from music into sales. One way is to start with your scales, which are your sales frameworks, your sales techniques, and your processes. Another way is to bring artistry to it by looking at the dynamics of music and applying it to sales conversations.

The salesperson’s main role is to help the customer take action, and musicality can help with that by adding emotion and creativity to the conversation. musicality can also help salespeople be more creative in general.

Building Confidence in Business

Jessica talks about the importance of performance in all aspects of life, from music to sales. The idea is that sometimes you have to access different parts of yourself in order to be successful and that this is not a bad thing. Beyonce is cited as an example of someone who has an alter ego that she calls upon when she needs to be fierce on stage.

In business, it is often important to be able to sell oneself and one’s ideas confidently. One way to build confidence is to develop an alter ego or character who is comfortable with selling. This can be helpful especially when cold calling, as it can be difficult to remain confident when speaking to someone who may not be interested.

Outbound Sales Strategies

Will Bachman and Jessica Magoch discuss the importance of outbound strategies that involve phone calls. Jessica says that cold calling is often ineffective because people feel like they are just a target on a list. Bachman and Magoch agree that cold calling is not a pleasant experience.

In order to make a cold call warmer, it is important to do 15 seconds of research on the person you are calling. This will help you to better understand them and get their attention. It is also important to ask permission before continuing the conversation and to be specific about the problems that you are solving.


  • 2:06: Making decisions first emotionally and back them up with logic.
  • 7:24: How to incorporate music into sales?
  • 11:14: How to teach creativity in sales.
  • 15:38: How to be creative in the moment.
  • 20:51: Eliminate the emotion from objections by eliminating the objection.
  • 29:08: How to avoid cold-calling.
  • 34:02: How to personalize your call?
  • 38:06: How to get your voice to be dynamic







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Unleashed Jessica Magoch


Will Bachman, Jessica Magoch


Will Bachman  00:01

Hello and welcome to Unleashed. Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, you can find us@umbrex.com That’s you and brex.com. I’m your host will Bachman. And I’m excited to be here today with Jessica Gooch, who is a jazz musician and a expert on sales and has put those two together. Jessica, welcome to the show.


Jessica Magoch 00:23

Hey, thanks for having me. Well appreciate it.


Will Bachman  00:26

So talk to me about music and sales, and what do they have to do with one another?


Jessica Magoch 00:32

Absolutely. Um, so I’ll start out with a little bit of my story. So I am primarily a musician, I went to school for musical theater, much to my parents chagrin, but my father was a sales trainer, National Sales Manager for, you know, his career, and he always wanted to get us into sales. So when I started auditioning at a college, the, you know, the, the best job to do, you know, with flexibility, and what that was, was sales. So I started getting into sales as well, and, you know, learn the basics, and then like, quickly excelled. And then that company that I worked for ahead, they exited, we built it from zero to 100 million in revenue. And so I kind of like learned all that the nuts and bolts of running a sales organization there and didn’t ever intend to do sales after that. But then there was an opportunity to invest in some women led social enterprises. And it was there that I learned the value of what learning how to sell could bring them. So that’s how I started my my consulting and coaching business. And then as I started that, there was always this question kind of posed to me, Jessica, you know, you can teach people how to sell. But that the thing that makes someone extraordinary that makes like three times the person who does the three times quota consistently like that thing, you can’t teach it, you just either you have it or you don’t. And anytime I hear that I you know, my ears kind of go up like, is it? Is it true? Is it really and so, you know, I was one of those anomalies. And so I said, Well, if I can examine why, why I was different, and the people that I trained were different. And we can dissect this and find out well, what is the thing if you give all people the same training, same information, but then some people take it and fly, and others struggle, like there’s something big missing? So part part of my success building a sales team was that I hired a lot of actors and artists, probably because I, you know, I connected with them, and they were in my circle, but they were very easy to train and had that you know, that thing that that inexplicable thing. And so, as I learned more, you know, uncovering the hood of like, what, what goes on behind the scenes in the sales conversation, this concept of people make decisions first, emotionally and back them up with logic. You’ve probably heard that before, right? Sure, absolutely. And, and so it’s been more and more well adopted. But how like, what does that mean, actually, in a sales conversation? How do you actually bring that to a sales conversation to help make a difference. And being a musician, I, I always knew that music really is the fastest way to affect someone’s emotions. So I’m going to take a half a step back and kind of explain that concept for people who may not have heard it before. So the idea of people make admission make decisions first emotionally and back them up with logic is from the study of emotional intelligence. So actually did some studies and looked at the brain and dissected like where and how information travels through the brain and saw that it goes through the amygdala first before it hits the frontal cortex and the amygdala is like the middle of your brain where emotions happen, passion and excitement and sad and all that. And it’s also where you could kind of say like, your gut reaction is it’s in that amygdala. And then it travels to the the frontal cortex or prefrontal cortex, I forget which one it is. But this is the area where you you kind of start to dissect information. And you start backing up that emotional path, that emotional decision you made with logic. And this happens subconsciously, people don’t know it, but what it looks like is, you know, someone presents you something, you have a feeling about it either way. And then you kind of sort through information, maybe make a spreadsheet, or pros and cons or whatever your, your logical method of making a decision, but all of that is actually influenced by that decision you already made in your amygdala by your emotional response. And then I, then you would think people say, Well, I, we wouldn’t want to make these decisions emotionally, right, we would want to avoid that certainly, like powerful like business executives, they’re not going to be making emotional decisions, they’re going to try to put that aside as much as possible. And I make logical decisions, when, when they’re actually aware of it. But then I found this other study that was so interesting. And it’s said that the information we’re able to process in the logical part of our brain is very limited. And that’s where that idea of like, you can only make a decision from three or four options at a time, like the human, we can’t actually process more than four pieces of information simultaneously. So that’s why if you you know, offering packages and your, your sales offerings, you want to limit it to a maximum of like four different choices. But in the amygdala, we’re actually able to process many, many hundreds of times more information immediately. So it actually is that our amygdala is actually better at processing a lot of information than our frontal cortex. So we are actually should like it would be actually beneficial that we do pay more attention to that initial gut reaction, though, we might not be able to verbalize the reasons why you feel something, what’s happening, you know, behind the scenes is more powerful than we’re able to articulate. So this idea of like, okay, emotions, how do they how do they work? And I think like hiring actors and artists and my background, learning about emotions, for you know, all my acting training really helped, coming to the table, talking to people and understanding what was going on on their side emotionally. People need to have an emotional response in order to take action.


Will Bachman  07:57

So how do you incorporate those insights? From music into sales? I think you call it like the musicology of sales.


Jessica Magoch 08:05

Yeah, sales musicology. So first of all, you first before any of that, you got to start with your, your scales, right? Any any artist, any great artist before, before, you’re able to be super creative and kind of go from ordinary extraordinary, you got to get to ignore ordinary first. So it always starts with like, here’s your basic, here’s your scales, once you get your scales, which is like your sales frameworks, your sales, you know, your basic sales techniques, your processes, once you get that, then the layer the next layer on top of that is to bring artistry to it. That’s why they say what selling is the art of selling, you know, all those books that this is what this is referring to. So what can we learn about music, which is able to transform people on such a subconscious level so quickly and apply it to sales. So one thing is the, the dynamics of music. If you look at music, like it generally follows a, you know, a kind of like a storyline where you start out low, and then you build and you crescendo and you hit, you know, a big a big peak, and then you slowly denim Wah, and this and this song plays out. So when we look at sales conversations, I actually did some studies and I was curious, like, do do generally songs that appeal to us, most, in general, as a public have a lot of dynamics in them. So is that true for sales conversations? And so I was working with a group and I asked if they would be by my guinea pigs, Could I could I pull your sales pitch Can I pulled the audio of your sales conversations and throw it into one of my music tools to measure the dynamics and see visually? If dynamics in the conversation had anything to do with or any correlation with a close rate? And it turns out that absolutely it did, the conversations that were more dynamic, where you saw lots of like ups and downs, and peaks and valleys, which represented which could represent emotion, right, or represent quiet listening, the back end, the back and forth and conversation, were more likely to lead to closed one opportunities, versus, versus conversations that were more static. So I thought that was really interesting, and certainly have to do like a lot more, you know, scientific work around that. But at this point, I could just say it’s, it’s a correlation. And so thinking about how do you bring musicality into your sales process, right? Something something simple as that to bring to make to make your conversations more interesting? Are you bringing emotion to the table? What are we bringing on the sales person’s side, because it’s, this isn’t about manipulating the customer. It’s about who do I have to be in order to help a person take action, when we know that it’s in their best interest, but their natural human tendency is they’re not going to want to take action, bro is going to, you know, default to what we know and the safe route. So it salespersons main role is to help them take that action. And then when you think about music, and artistry, it’s that creativity that we bring to sales, how do you teach creativity? It’s so I do a lot of exercises with my, with my sales teams, where we try to unlock that creativity in non sales situations. And why is creativity important? Because we need to be able to, in the moment, find creative solutions to wherever the customers, you know, whether it’s an objection or a challenge problem that they have. That’s one of the keys to a successful salesperson is to be creative. So we’ll do exercises that actually unlock creativity. Because I think in many ways, like most traditional schooling doesn’t necessarily promote creativity. And so you know, it can get lost in our childhood


Will Bachman  12:50

exercises. So, share some of those exercises, what are some of those exercises you do to unlock creativity?


Jessica Magoch 12:59

So, what, uh, like, I like to do a lot of improvisational exercises to help people think on the spot, because creativity is, is like really connecting with a part of yourself that maybe maybe a voice you kind of used to turning off like your instincts, your unique self. So, so improvisational exercises, like, I, I have this game I play where I have slides, I give them five slides, and the slide just has a picture on it. And it’s maybe like a raccoon on one and maybe like a water droplet on another. So like very vague. And they are given in the beginning they’re given what they’re selling and who they’re selling it to. And they have to give a presentation with the slides without ever having seen the slides. So it forces them to think in the to be 100% in the moment, because you can’t think ahead and think about what am I going to say next? Because you don’t know what’s on the slide. And the slide has to be relevant to what you’re saying. So if a water droplet comes up, you got to figure out how that water droplets going to influence what what you’re going to say at higher sell it. So it’s really helpful and it’s really fun to see, like people that are particularly people who are like very intellectual in their head a lot to start getting out of their head and into their body and start responding more to their instincts. Because


Will Bachman  14:40

what would be an example of the like, what you’re selling and who you’re selling to, like just set that up for me.


Jessica Magoch 14:48

Okay, so let’s say and I like to think of it’s like your Shark Tank like you’re selling to the sharks. You might be selling a handbag that you can get US underwater.


Will Bachman  15:04

Okay. And you’re selling it to the Shark Tank people?


Jessica Magoch 15:10

Yeah, sometimes they’ll do like, Okay, where are the sharks, the people, the sharks, or the rue or, or you can pick, you know, another group of people, okay? You’re you’re selling it to a school of fish.


Will Bachman  15:22

And then you, and then you show and then you’re gonna show five slides, the person doesn’t know what they are in advance and you check, you know, a raccoon, and you’re like, you know, a raccoon walks around the forest, and they probably can’t carry their food with him. Right. But you know, wouldn’t they love to have a bag to carry the little bits and morsels that they find along the way? Right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so yes, they have to just totally improvise based on


Jessica Magoch 15:50

totally have to improvise. Now. It also it also shows them the importance of having a framework to rely on so that you can be creative in the moment. Yeah. So like, we start out with, Okay, here’s the framework, you need to start with the problem? Well, first you introduce yourself, but you need to start your your sales presentation with the problem, because people aren’t going to understand the solution unless they see like how it’s going to solve a problem they have right now. So a tendency for a lot of salespeople is to go right to is like, I have the best handbag for underwater, you know, and, and you kind of when you see the difference of someone coming like Yeah, have you ever have you ever felt like a raccoon kind of scurrying through the night trying to figure out where your lip glosses, you know, so we’re starting out with the problem painting the picture. And then in the next and the the goal there is to connect emotionally, with with the problem. So isn’t it fresh? And using emotional words? Isn’t it frustrating? Isn’t it a headache? Or, you know, don’t you get so depressed when, and then the next. And of course, we’re having fun with it, then the next slide is intentionally something that is like a graph or a chart. And that slide is because we’ll start with a motion. And then we support it with logic, because that’s kind of the path that the human brain is following, right. So the next slide is going to be something logical, where there may be a chart and you say, like 40 47% of all underwater, you know, I’m doing water inhabitants say that they don’t have a way to keep their lipsticks in order when they go out at night, I don’t know. And then the next slide is, then presents should be about the solution. So they have this framework of like problem, problem, supporting fact solution. And then the clothes are they ask at the end. And so they they’ve kind of got that. And that then becomes really helpful to couple that with the picture. But then everything else is completely made up and on the spot. And it’s really fun to play. But it’s, it helps people get get in, in a space of creativity. And then if you go into a sales call right after that, you’ll be in a different state than you would if you were just like worrying about what might they say, What am I going to say to the after that so that’s a fun one.


Will Bachman  18:31

Okay, I love that exercise. What’s what’s another exercise you do?


Jessica Magoch 18:38

Let’s say, Well, I have one that’s not so much. Well, yeah, this I play objection hot potato. So also about being creative in the moment and following your instincts in your gut. So we take like a ball or because I never have a potato, but we’re dealing with a ball. And one person has to throw a ball ball to another person in the room and throw out an objection that a prospect might get. And then the person has to answer it, you know, they have the ball. Now it’s a hot potato, they have to answer quickly and throw an objection back to the next person. So again, it’s like it’s kind of takes away that opportunity to overthink things and because what they say is like, hey, actually, my gut is pretty good at knowing the answer to these things. I don’t have to, you know, worry so much. But if I if I’m connected to my inner, you know, creativity and I’m also connected to my prospect, then I know the answers. I just have to trust that they’re there.


Will Bachman  19:47

What are some of the best ways to handle objections? Is there a kind of a, you know, set of categories like hey, you know, if you get an objection, there’s four ways you can handle it. If one way to ask a question in advance, like, why is it important to or what would happen? What would happen if that were true? Or what would happen? If what what’s the worst that would happen? I mean, is there a question? So many? So what are some of the classic approaches to teaching? Objection? Handling?


Jessica Magoch 20:18

Yeah. So objections are the thing that kind of, you know, that kind of defines? Are you going to get the sale or not? Right? So it’s really critical that we think about how we’re going to address how we’re going to approach them. I think if you’re thinking about this, but what are objections, we got to start with that so that we whatever we use to overcome them, we are so the, if we’re looking at this emotional journey that a prospect takes they’re like, have a problem, but they’re afraid to take action. And then Mrs. Mr. Mrs. salesperson shows up, shows them the solution, and then kind of encourages them to you know, take that leap. Because ultimately, people are afraid to make a mistake, right, afraid to make make a mistake might have your job at risk, you might look like an idiot, definitely money at stake. So any, any true objection and much of distinguished just a question from an objection, objections, a reason why they’re not going to buy is, once you’ve, it depends where they are in the sales process. But if you’ve already qualified them, you know, they’re a good fit, you know, it’s the right time and you’re speaking to the right people, and they have the money, but they have, that they still have an objection of why they’re not going to move forward. Then it all ultimately comes back to fear, fear of making a decision. And that’s why most sales and up in no decision, they don’t go with your competitor, they just don’t do anything they kind of get they just decide it’s not enough of a priority to take the risk to take action. So when you think about that, the emotions that are involved in objections, the first thing you have to do before you address an objection is eliminate the emotion from it. And the way the way you do that is very simple. It’s by agreeing with them, and acknowledging, acknowledging their objection, empathizing with it. So absolutely, totally hear you on that. validating them, you’re not the only one, I hear that a lot people are having really, you know, the market is going crazy, right? Now everyone’s in kind of a holding pattern. Right? So I’ve now um, kind of, instead of coming at them, like argumentatively, to show them like, No, you’re wrong, here’s the right answer. You’re You’re right. And then I’ll offer whatever my response would be. And then ask them again, you know, ask them if I’ve, you know, satisfied that question for them. So empathize, offer and then and then ask a follow up question is the like, the simple framework behind that, but the empathize part is, is the part that like, in the moment salespeople are quick to forget, because they jump right to like, I have the great, I have a great answer for that. I practice that. And jumping right to the solution. But there are great other techniques to like the, what you were describing, which is called like a negative reversal and, or isolating the objection, which is like, Okay, so let’s say that wasn’t a problem. Would you be moving forward? Right. So determining first, like, is that really the only objection before I address that? Because often, the real objection is not the duck objection that they state to you. So part of the, you know, the challenge there is to dig and say, like, Okay, if if the price was, you know, lower would would that, would you be moving forward with it? If I can get, you know, you 10% off on this, would you be able to sign by Friday? And then we uncover like, oh, well, actually, we have to do okay, so price isn’t really the real objection. What’s what’s under that, that you’re not seeing? You know, the value that’s attached to it? Let’s address that thing. Maybe it’s like, yeah, didn’t have the right people in the room didn’t have the right, present the solution accurately, etcetera. So that’s how I, that’s how I address dress objections and look at them as opportunities, you know, rather than a loss of a potential loss and objections and opportunity to then show them something that they didn’t see before.


Will Bachman  25:02

So we were talking about, we kind of went down this rabbit hole of the creativity exercises. Let’s bring it back to this idea of Musicology, sales musicology. And are there other ways that you kind of extend and use that metaphor? Kind of like melody or harmony or rhythm? You know, we talked about sort of the dynamics of, you know, of the, whether we’re piano or forte on it. But are there kind of other aspects that you find that the metaphor is helpful?


Jessica Magoch 25:42

Yeah, I think, well, so we had we talked about like creativity, like creating music, what it takes to be a creator of music, and then the performance aspect of it. Sale sales and selling is a performance. And, you know, sometimes you have to, especially if you’re, you know, you’re feeling insecure about a meeting or a big meeting, or is your CEO of the world, you’re meeting with the CEO of the world? And you just feel like, How can I bring this person any value? Yeah, it’s a great opportunity to remember your inner performance. And life is about, you know, it’s, it’s not, it’s, it’s about being the character, you need to be in the moment, right? So and that doesn’t mean you’re lying, or you’re not being yourself, it just means you’re, you’re accessing the parts of yourself that you need in that moment. So if I’m going on stage, as a musician, I have an alter ego, if there’s a great book, the alter ego effect, highly recommend it. But the talks about how like great artists like Beyonce, they have an alter ego that they call upon in times of when they need to, like when she needs to go on stage and be this fierce, like Sasha was the name of her character, fierce character to do that job, and Sasha is a part of her, but it’s not the same person that goes to church on Sunday. And it’s not the same personality that she brought to the Gospel Choir. So when we think about selling, like, who, who are we going to bring, like, what character we’re going to bring to that moment, and that could be really helpful, you know, with bringing confidence. I do that a lot with like, especially entry level salespeople, because here they are coming in, and maybe they’re trying to, you know, connect with a CEO who’s been doing the job for 30 years. And and of course, they’re thinking like, what value do I have to bring I just graduated college. And so we can bring in our alter egos to do it become a character to perform in that moment and pull out, pull out that piece of confidence. And so I have them develop their alter egos and choose their choose their alter egos, what’s their name? What are the characteristics? How are you going to remind yourself, I have a step, action figure of Wonder Woman on my desk, because she’s my alter ego. And so I’ll glance at her if I ever need a boost. Like that’s, that’s my alter ego and who I need to be when I need that extra confidence going into an important meeting or something. So people find that really helpful. It might be like, one of my one of my salespeople, like she, she wore yellow, this specific pair of yellow high heels. Even if she was like on a Zoom meeting at home, when she pulled out those yellow high heels. She just felt more powerful. So everyone has their own different thing, when encourage people to find that thing that you could connect with physically that helps you be the character you need to be in that moment.


Will Bachman  29:08

Talk to me about cold calling.


Jessica Magoch 29:16

Cold calling is the thing we love to hate. But know that it’s but the numbers just keep coming back that it’s so effective. And it’s actually 2023 They say it’s going to be even more imperative that your outbound strategy involves phone calls. So cold calling, nobody likes a cold call. I don’t like it. I don’t know if you’d like it. Well, I tried to be nice to cold callers because karma, you know, is the thing. So if you’re not nice to cold callers, you’re gonna have you’re gonna have to burn off some of that karma when you first start cold calling What


Will Bachman  29:55

do you say to cold callers? What do you say?


Jessica Magoch 29:58

Well I mostly examine, because I listen to like, anything I could steal to bring back to my team. So my work, right. But I mostly examine and what you hear mostly is, people getting on a phone trying trying to control a conversation so that the person on the other side can’t, doesn’t have an opportunity to talk until they hear the whole pitch. And sometimes that could be if you if you let someone keep talking, that could be like five or seven minutes, and they still you still haven’t said anything? Because they don’t want you to say, I can’t talk right now, this isn’t a good time. Like, why are you calling me where’d you get my number. So nobody likes a cold call. Because we all feel like we’re just a target on a list, you know, most of the time they’re calling with you with something that is totally irrelevant to what you would need or do because they haven’t actually done any, you know, research. Most of the time. So the key to any cold call is to make it warm. And no matter what like free work you use or strategy or technique, like the one thing you can do to immediately differentiate get someone’s attention disarm them, is to show them that you know them and do 15 seconds of research before you make that call. And it makes a huge difference. Huge, huge difference. So


Will Bachman  31:34

when you see when you receive an inbound, you know, call the call to you. And you say you’re kind like, would you just say hey, thanks. Sorry, I’m not interested, please take me off your list, or do you actually like give them feedback? Hey, guess what? I’m actually a sales trainer. And can I give you on your opening? There? You were like a little bit, you know? I mean, how long do you listen? And what what do you say? Actually? Oh, well, the


Jessica Magoch 31:59

thing is, is like they know, I’m a sales trainer, they know, I’m a sales enablement specialist, they’re usually calling about like a software tool. So I, I don’t offer advice unless I’m asked. But I do get some really good calls. I do get some things that I’m really like blown away with. And internally, our teams will, you know, as we’re developing strategies, just pass things around, like, look at this one I got this is really, this one’s really good. And yeah, some of them are super creative. But the thing that they all have in common is that they are personal. You know, some are to the extreme of like, sending a video with my name on it, or, you know, we’re but or sending a video and actually using my name in the video. So I know it wasn’t sent to 100 other people. Although there are a lot of Jessica’s in the world. But anyway, that’s besides the point. But having giving that personal touch, I mean, to me, that’s why you hire a human to do this job and not a computer, you know, you mailing email systems are great. But they serve a certain purpose. And if you hire a person, and they can make that email personalized, that’s the first thing you need to do is get their attention. And the best way to get someone’s attention is by talking about them. You.


Will Bachman  33:29

So what are your some of your tips if you’re training some people to do outbound calls? Cold Calls?


Jessica Magoch 33:35

Yeah. So most of them, like I talked about, like, the scales, right, we have to have the framework first. And the main thing is to always to ask permission before you know everything you do. So hey, I know, I know, I probably caught you off guard, you weren’t expecting my call. But if you give me 30 seconds, I could let you know I called and you could let me know if you want to continue chatting, or just hang up on me. Does that sound good? And usually that elicits a little chuckle or a laugh because that’s what they were going to do is hang up on you and now you’ve you know, by getting them by offering them that you’ve actually eliminated the possibility that they will you so reverse psychology there and then and then they usually say yes or okay fine, go 30 seconds, what do you got? And then what comes next is that personalization, you know, opening up like, Hey, before I jump into that was I just saw you, you go to this school, my cousin went there, how had the team do this year, etc. And then and then Okay, so anyway, the reason why I was calling is and then rather than ask them open ended questions like you would in a sales conversation when they’re further We’re down the pipeline, we want to make it really easy for them to answer, we don’t want to have to think too much, at least early in the conversation. So now I’ve been talking to a lot of other business owners in your industry be very specific there. And, you know, they’ve been saying they’ve been having like, they’re complaining about one of you three of these problems, and then you list the problems. And then I’m not sure if you’re any of those are a problem for you, or not sure if any of those are priority for you to solve this year. And then if those three problems are like, those are the three that you’ll really want to make sure you get right. And by knowing your customers, and then one of those three should resonate with them. And it’s easier for them, rather than saying, like, what problems are you having now, it’s too open ended, especially they don’t know what you’re selling. People have a lot of problems. So getting very specific, and it also helps them understand what you do without actually saying what you do. And so, you know, then get them talking about their problem before offering them the meeting like a next step, which would be like a discovery call, or you know, depending on your sales process, a demo from there. So, yeah, so that’s, that’s kind of the process, I was asked permission each step, as you’re going through through your sales process, and then the Musicology, bringing that to it, I could tell you the right words, the words to say all day long. But if you’re saying it like this, and everyone’s going to know that you gotta get yourself in a mental state. Things like standing up doing jumping jacks, things you would do, like before you got on stage or before you went into a game, this is this is your game, this is your show, this is your performance, you got you want to be 100% at your best coming into, like a cold calling block. Because you know, you’re gonna get nose, you’re gonna get rejected, but you gotta, you gotta keep going. And the emotion that you bring is good is is contagious, the person on the other side is going to feel that and you you probably get a lot of cold calls, well, I get a lot. That’s a very fast way to differentiate yourself is by the energy that you bring to the call.


Will Bachman  37:41

Beyond kind of standing up or doing jumping jacks, do you have some other tips on how to make your voice more dynamic, how to make your voice, you know how to put more energy into your voice.


Jessica Magoch 37:57

Beyond standing up, and that usually helps like standing up usually is the thing. People will be naturally dynamic when they’re connected to the words to what they’re saying. So if someone starts to sound monotone, I asked them to really think about what they’re saying, if you’re describing a problem, think about the feeling in that that problem evokes and then your voice will naturally follow. You know, it doesn’t you don’t have to, like manipulate your voice or think about it too much. It’s more like what’s happening mentally will be reflected in your voice. If you hate cold calling, that’s gonna come across in your call colleagues in your conversations. So think about what the end game is, why are you doing it? Who are you helping? what’s what, how does this fit into the big picture? It’s not forever, it’s just for the next two hours, things like that. So that that that will all affect the dynamics of your voice. Bringing that bringing that in. And then another thing is that alter ego part of it. Sometimes people think like, if I’m talking to a CEO, I have to be very professional. And what what that idea of professional might mean, what does that mean to different people, mostly, you know, there’s kind of stripping away their personality, their sense of humor dynamics, so they become more like robotic because they they think that perception of this is what professional is. And if I’m not professional, I won’t be respected but no professional is helping people and being knowledgeable and being friendly and developing relationships. So it’s a little bit about like changing like, who that character is that you’re you’re bringing into The call


Will Bachman  40:02

tell us a bit about your sales training practice. What? What do you do for clients?


Jessica Magoch 40:10

Yeah, so, so as a sales coach, I do anything from helping develop sales strategies and playbooks to doing one on one coaching, I usually focus on startups or small companies like under 50 employees often work with entrepreneurs one on one who are launching new products or programs and they have to sell it first and so working with them to make that that process of learning learning a new new skill, I’m bringing that so we’ll do some one on one but with teams is developing the playbook so you know, we’ll take a look at you know, get alignment on what what are those problems that people are going to relate to and developing a strategy and then training the team on that strategy to implement it and then doing ongoing coaching to to help identify what those areas are when they’re when they’re applying applying it but not getting the results? It’s usually falls into this sales musicology area where it’s like, okay, you’re doing the thing, but you’re not getting results like what what, what else is happening? And then we could we can get more into the coaching aspect of it.


Will Bachman  41:41

Amazing. And Jessica, if listeners wanted to follow up with you, where can they find you online?


Jessica Magoch 41:50

J P M partners.com. Jessica page Magoosh partners that sir Jessica page Booz jpm partners.com. There’s a contact page on there. That’s the best way to get get in touch with me.


Will Bachman  42:05

Fantastic. Jessica. It has been such a pleasure and learning experience to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining.


Jessica Magoch 42:13

Well, I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.




Jessica’s background in sales.


Making decisions first emotionally and back them up with logic.


How to incorporate music into sales?


How to teach creativity in sales.


How to be creative in the moment.


Eliminate the emotion from objections by eliminating the objection.


Negative reversal and isolating the objection.


How to avoid cold-calling.


How to personalize your call?


How to get your voice to be dynamic.




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