John Livesay, Will Bachman
Will Bachman 00:01
Hello and welcome to Unleashed the show that explores how to thrive as an independent professional Unleashed is produced by Umbrex. You can visit email@example.com You, MB RTX. I’m your host will Bachman and I’m here today with John Livesey, who is the pitch whisperer. He’s a sales keynote speaker. John, welcome to the show. Thanks.
John Livesay 00:22
Well, great to be with you. Okay, so
Will Bachman 00:24
what does a pitch whisper whisper? Talk to me about your title?
John Livesay 00:28
Well, a lot of people know what a dog whisperer is, and a horse whisperer. And similarly, I calm people down when it’s time for them to Pitch Anything, including themselves for a job interview, or pitch to sell something, whether it’s a product or a service. And I have found that the best way to win more sales is to tell a story that includes your own personal story, a company story, and then turning a case study into a case story. When you tell stories, you become magnetic and memorable, as opposed to just pushing out facts and figures that are quickly forgotten. All right.
Will Bachman 01:07
So tell me your story. Let’s start with a story. What’s the story about, about you know, how you got into this or someone that you’ve helped? Let’s, let’s go with the story.
John Livesay 01:20
I heard by Anthem insurance to be their sales keynote speaker and they said, after your talk, we’re going to have an improvisation session and people from the audience will shout out objections and people on stage will replay being a doctor and some people from Anthem. And I said, Well, why don’t I stay for that improvisation session and whisper in people’s ear in case they get stuck? Something I mentioned in the sales keynote, and they said, Oh, we love that idea. And then people just Gosh, I wish you could be in my ear where I’m actually in the field. And I told that story to Ink Magazine. And they said, Oh my gosh, you’re like a pitch whisperer. And so that’s where that title came from. And another example of a case study into a case story. I was working with Olympus medical, and they said, you know, we have this piece of equipment that makes surgeries Go 30% Faster. And we’re just not understanding why more doctors aren’t buying it. It’s so logical. And I said, Well, part of the reason is, people buy emotionally and then back it up with logic, and then went, oh, so I asked them some questions. And here’s what they tell. Now. Imagine how happy Dr. Higgins was at Long Beach Memorial using our equipment six months ago, when he could go out into the patients out there, the waiting room and hour earlier than expected. And if you’ve ever waited for someone you love to come out of surgery, you know, every minute feels like an hour. And the doctor put them out of their waiting misery and said good news, the scope shows they don’t have cancer, they’re going to be fine. And then turn to the rep and said, you know, this is why I became a doctor for moments like this. Now that salesperson tells that story to another doctor at another hospital. And here’s the magic. The other doctor sees himself in the story and says, that’s why I became a doctor, I want your equipment to the client said oh gosh, that gives us chills. Not only are we not telling stories like that, it never occurred to us to make the patient’s family a character in the story.
Will Bachman 03:25
Tell me a bit about your process. So and you maybe illustrate it with a story of an example of how do you first you know, hear the pitch? And how do you work with how do you iterate kind of walk me through the process because it’s probably not easy to you probably just didn’t walk in the door and just say, Oh, well just make the family character. I imagined a bit of a process to get to that
John Livesay 03:49
there is there’s a structure that I have on how to tell a great story. And I’ll use that recent case story as an example of the structure and action. So the first step is the exposition. You have to paint the picture. You’re like a journalist, the who, what, where, when. So I gave you the doctor’s name, the location, how long ago it was, we have a sense of what’s happening. And then the second step is the problem. And here’s will where the stakes have to be somewhat high for you to care about what’s happening in the story. In this case, I thought, Well, if the surgery gets done an hour earlier than expected, who’s impacted by that? Well, I guess the doctor makes more money. And so it’s the hospital. But who else and I keep digging and digging until I find somebody that has an emotional tie to that benefit or that problem of waiting and waiting. And that’s where I came up with the patient’s family is really suffering every minute waiting for their loved one. And you’ll notice the technique I use by pulling you into the story of saying you’ve ever had to wait and even if you haven’t, you probably know somebody who has or you can imagine how that would be painful to be waiting, wondering if someone was going to be okay. And then the third step is the solution and in this case Next, when the doctor comes out and says, you know, the patient’s gonna be fine. But the magic really happens in the fourth step, which is the resolution, what is lifelike after that solution has been provided in this case, it’s the dialogue told and present tense that the doctor says to the sales rep. Of this is why I became a doctor for moments like this. And that’s what allows other doctors who hear that story to see themselves in the story and want to go on the journey and want that equipment.
Will Bachman 05:30
Give me a few other examples of like, sort of the before and after pitch after you kind of intervened. Yeah, sure.
John Livesay 05:39
I was working with an architecture firm. And they said, we’ve been called into, we’re in the final three of pitching to win an airport renovation, and whoever wins, it’s going to get a billion dollar contract for the next six years. And we’ve got some beautiful pictures about the jobs we’ve done. And we have an idea that we’re going to just open this design. And as I looked at those before, and after pictures, I said, these are quite dramatic, but you don’t have a story to bring them to life. And then went, oh, so we use that same four step process. And we took a case study before pictures and turned it into this case story, which was four years ago, Jeff, who hired us at Chet at JFK to renovate that airport, it took about three years. And during that process, we had to rip off all the tiles in the middle of the night from nine at night till nine in the morning. And we had all of our vendors on call in case something went wrong. And sure enough, at two in the morning, a fuse blew and we had the vendor there, they fixed it. And then the last tiled went down at 859 in the morning, and all the stores opened on time. And now four years later, their sales are up 25% Because we designed a place that pulls more people into the shopping experience and causes them to spend more money. And so when the other airport decision makers heard that story, they saw themselves in it and said, Oh my gosh, these people use critical thinking. But instead of saying you use critical thinking to anticipate problems, we showed it in the story by having the vendors on call, and the other airport, really excited to hear about the measurable increase in sales from that huge investment they have to make to motivate the airport.
Will Bachman 07:34
The typical listener of this show is an independent consultant independent management consultant. What would your some of your tips be for those of us who are independent consultants, pitcher our services to a potential client? So
John Livesay 07:51
listen, I’m in your shoes, I as an independent sales keynote speaker have to pitch myself all day long. Yeah. And so I think the first thing you need to do is sell yourself. People buy energy. I’ve had, you know, people interview me and two other speakers. And my speaking agent will say congrats, they picked you they liked your energy. And I thought, Hmm, it really, you know, money is energy and action. And so what I’m selling is not just giving the sales audience new tools to close more sales, but how they’re going to feel. And the same thing is true. In that example, I just gave with the airport. Architect, you know, they have they want to like you if they’re going to work with you that for the next five or six years. So one of the things that makes people feel connected to you as you can share your own story of origin of how you got into this business, being a management consultant, why you love it. That’s how people connect. And then you can ask your potential client, what’s their story of origin? And you’re asking someone something personal, it’s a much better way to connect report than just how’s the weather? Oh, I know what it’s like to live in your city, that kind of thing. So when you tell a story, it really sticks as I mentioned earlier, to make you memorable, because what happens is they’ll typically, in my case, three speakers and you confirm the same thing is true. Usually they interview about three management consultants before they pick one I’m guessing.
Will Bachman 09:14
True. is about right.
John Livesay 09:17
Yep. And so whoever told the best story is the one that is memorable because they have a meeting after the meeting with all the after they’ve heard all the pitches. And they’re like, Well, you know, what do you think? Well, all those people we interviewed sound the same, I guess we should go with the cheapest. You’ve been seen as a commodity, because you all just talked about pushing out facts and figures about how you increase sales by a certain percentage or whatever your you know, typical stats are, but if you told the story, and they see themselves in that story, they can remember it and repeat it for that meeting after the meeting. And sometimes the decision makers don’t even hear your pitch. But if you’ve got somebody that heard your story, and they can remember it they become your brand ambassador, and they say I think we should hire will let me tell you the story he told about what he did for another couple Then, of course, and it sounds like he knows exactly what we need. Because my whole premise is when you describe the problem in such detail, they feel like you have their solution to
Will Bachman 10:12
all right. Well, let’s try something. Let’s try and experiment. Okay, I’ll put myself out there here. Let’s say that you know, you are coaching me. And so you can ask, you can be the client, right? And that’s me my like telling me about Umbrex, whatever. I’ll tell you my standard, how I talk about it. And then you can critique it mercilessly, and break it down, and maybe give me some some tips on how to reframe the story that we tell.
John Livesay 10:41
Sure, should we do it in the form of an elevator pitch, or actually a pitch that you’re giving to a client who has brought you in to pitch against competitors?
Will Bachman 10:50
No, it’s like More typically, I don’t do a lot of elevator meetings. A more typical thing is, I’m on, you know, someone either found us online or more often recommended to us by someone that they know they’ve heard about it. So I’m on. I’m on a Zoom meeting with someone right? Or a phone call, but probably zoom these days. You’re and they’re considering us, you know, they haven’t worked with us before. And I get on and they have a live need. Right? Put, you know, potentially. Okay, so they’re looking for consultants.
John Livesay 11:20
We’re past the rapport building stage, you’ve done some needs analysis, you’ve asked some questions. And now they say, Okay, tell me about another client you about that’s in our industry or somebody like us. And that’s typically where you either talk about a testimonial or a case study. Yes.
Will Bachman 11:35
Yeah. They might ask about. Usually, before they jump to that, they’ll just say like, tell us about Umbrex. Right.
John Livesay 11:44
Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. All right. So you can ask me what you’re currently saying. Yeah. Tell me about Umbrex. What is I know you’re a management consultant. But what makes you unique?
Will Bachman 11:54
Well, thanks for asking. So I was at McKinsey for five years. And I left in 2008, to start my own independent consulting practice. And when I did that, right, about the same time I read this book tribes by Seth Godin, who talked about connecting your tribe, and my tribe was independent management consultants at that point. So I said, that seemed like a good idea. I didn’t see anyone else doing it. And for me, personally, I thought that would be very helpful. Because while I knew to be how to be a consultant, I didn’t know the first thing about how to run a consulting practice. You know, how do I write a statement of work? How do I get healthcare? How do I get insurance? How do I send an invoice. So I was reaching out to other McKinsey alums who had set up their own consulting practice, began organizing events connecting people there that was helpful to others, and this community began to grow. So Umbrex really began with this DNA of community. The business model came later, where clients began hearing that we had, I was organizing this community of independent consultants asking me for helping find the right person for a project. And so I kind of just did it on the side for a number of years until 2015, we finally launched it with an actual name. So that’s the origin, really, we have two sides to Umbrex. On the consultant facing side, we continue to be very focused on building a community running events for members, creating resources for members. We have a private forum for members, we now have mastermind group for members. And on the consultant on the client facing side, the business model is we help clients find the right consultant for the project. We currently have about 3000 members, we serve every industry, and we have people globally. So that’s kind of a snapshot
John Livesay 13:54
of where we’re at. Okay, and how do you come up with a name?
Will Bachman 13:59
So the name stands for umbrella of excellence. Umbrex.
John Livesay 14:03
Nice. Okay. And in this particular scenario, I’m a client needing a consultant and coming to you for a recommendation on which ones you use that maybe you were maybe someone else is that accurate?
Will Bachman 14:16
Yeah, that’s right. So you already have you already have like a live need, right? Most likely,
John Livesay 14:22
right? And I’m thinking it might be you but if it’s not you, you can also help me find somebody that would be better.
Will Bachman 14:27
Well, no, no, not me. Like not will Bachman personally, right? You’ve come to me because I have, you know, 3000 independent consultants in our community. So your your thing
John Livesay 14:37
would you say? Would it be fair to say you’re like the Expedia for helps you find the best flight and hotel, you help people find the best consultants?
Will Bachman 14:47
I mean, you could kind of that would be a metaphor that you could use, you know, it would be a metaphor, that would be
John Livesay 14:53
Yeah, I mean, there’s, you know, back in the day would be a travel agent, and in other words, it doesn’t, you know, it’s you It’s one stop shopping kind of vibe. Yeah, you’re just a huge resort. So that’s one metaphor I would use. Okay. So what I would do here is I would start your story with describing the problem first before you describe your background and book. Alright, so I would say, after being a consultant for many years at McKinsey, what I found was the those people who wanted to go off on their own, didn’t have a clue how to run a practice, they didn’t know what insurance to get, they didn’t know how to invoice anybody. And so I thought I had this need. And I bet there’s 1000s of other consultants who have the same needs. So I started Umbrex, which stands for umbrella of excellence, to start helping people figure out how to run their consulting practice. And that was back in 2008. And since then, it’s grown to having 1000s of members where we help them with that. But now starting in 2015, there’s been a huge demand for clients, just like yourself, to wonder, how can I find the best consultant, they’re overwhelmed by the number of choices out there, they don’t have the time to vet them and check references. And the other problem they struggle with is can we talk to somebody who is an unbiased party about maybe want to check some references, and really get a personality fit, not just a skill set, so they come to Umbrex to solve those problems. And because we’ve been doing this for so long, where like the expedient in the travel business, or if you were using a really exclusive matchmaker who took the time to find out your particular needs, without having to go onto a dating website, we could think of it in those terms. And people love the customization part of what we offer because it saves them time. And there’s nothing worse than a bad hire, whether it’s a consultant or someone at your company. And we save them all of that aggravation. And they have peace of mind after working with us.
Will Bachman 17:14
I love that those are helpful tips. Good. You know, I liked the part about focusing on the problem statement. And maybe I almost need because it’s sort of a to ended marketplace, almost need to perhaps tell two stories like well, there’s really kind of let me tell you two stories or two problems that we solve, right? Yes. For independent consultants, there’s a real problem that when you’re starting out, you may know how to be a consultant, but you don’t know how to run a consulting practice. Right? So people leaving McKinsey, Bain, BCG KPMG, maybe they’re even partners, but have they personally sent an invoice before or gotten health insurance or business insurance? They haven’t done those things built a website. So that was a need I had and I figured other people had that need. Right. So I can say that. And then for clients, you know, let me tell you a story about I’ll make up a name like John, right, James. So James, a client of ours. And when she wants to use a big consulting firm, but she knows who to call, right, it’s not that hard. The partners at McKinsey, Bain BCG, they’re knocking on her door all the time, right? It’s a defined set. She wants to use an independent consultant like say, hey, I need the caliber that I get at McKinsey or Bain. But I don’t need that full team. Then, what is she going to do? Well, maybe she was an associate partner at McKinsey. So she knows a few people. So she will call those people that she knows. But once she’s exhausted her personal network, how do you then find the person? Right? So that is you want to get that caliber. So there’s a bit of a matching a bit of a search problem there. And that’s what,
John Livesay 19:02
what you’re also doing is you’re putting an objection into the story, like, Oh, I think I could do this on my own, and like, a lot of people try and then they burn out, and then they just don’t
Will Bachman 19:10
have the results they want. And you should, you should, your first choice should be to get on your own. And to talk to people that you know, in your network. I mean, if you know someone personally, by all means, like, talk to that person. But if you just sort of post it randomly, or you’re not going to, you know, have worked with that person before, and you’d like to have someone who has, you know, kind of a better broader sense of the market. Plus, even if you rely on one person, you don’t know if they’re the best, you know, right in the universe. So maybe, maybe I even would try to craft it specifically, like give a specific example like, oh, you know, Jane is the SVP at you know, a large, you know, whatever health insurance company or a large manufacturing firm. And, you know, here’s the kind of situation that she was in before we met, right, so she wanted to do this project. But he’d exhausted or network, and then write, you know, to try to make it very personal is what you’re saying
John Livesay 20:06
exactly. And also want to stack those problems a little bit. So you know, don’t just settle for one problem you’re solving. There’s a phrase I teach people, which is, once you’ve said the first problem is they’ve exhausted their own personal network, it’s not working. They’re so overwhelmed, because this is taking way more time than they actually have to do with it. Do this, then you say, so that’s one reason they’re going to use us to help save them time. And then this phrase, as if that’s not bad enough, they’re really worried about making the wrong choice. And then you see how I did that. Everybody knows about hires, whether it’s consultant or full time employees, one of the kiss of deaths to productivity and everything else, your you know, that person’s job is at stake, if you make a recommendation, whether it’s for a consultant or for me, you know, event planners, my whole job is mitigating the risk for them and showing, you know, testimonials and videos of me on stage so that they know I know what I’m doing and that they’re not recommending somebody that gets stage fright or something. Right. So same thing with bad hire. So if you pink that it’s a little more emotional drama to the story, that you’re tapping into what keeps them up at night?
Will Bachman 21:16
What about so that is very helpful for kind of a live discussion where you’re already in the room with someone? What kind of, do you get involved in helping people craft like a cold outreach, or even a lukewarm outreach? Yep. And you know, to maybe someone that they knew, you know, a while ago, but it’s a bit of a not hot relationship? It’s a bit of a, you know, cool, cool, read me you knew the person five years ago, what are some of the tips that you have on crafting, cold outreach drill or a cool outreach?
John Livesay 21:51
Right? Well, I recently was hired by Boston loan to help their sales team, they have to make cold calls on optometrists a lot of the time. And there’s no appointment, you just kind of pop in and try to get 10 minutes here or there between patients. And I have a formula that soft skills make you strong. And it’s the three parts are empathy, listening, and storytelling, to build that emotional connection to earn the right to even get a meeting. And so some of it is just being empathetic to that front office manager who was like an air traffic controller, trying to control that doctor schedule and keep them on time and acknowledging how much work that is for them. And that you’re, you know, you can tell a story of another office manager, for example of whoever the gatekeeper is that was equally frustrated, and you made them look like a hero to the doctor, or wherever the OS is, by fly NZ. So sometimes it’s using those techniques to earn the right to get in the door and not just be seen as an annoying test, but instead start to be seen as a welcome guest.
Will Bachman 23:02
And what about, like cold outreach by email? So most of our listeners are probably not walking into a physical office? What are your thoughts on sort of cold email tips to actually make
John Livesay 23:14
sure that subject line is grabbing their attention and that it’s about them and not about you. So if you can describe the pain point in the subject line, odds are more you’re gonna get a much better open rate than if you’re just, Hi, I’m here to need a management consultant.
Will Bachman 23:34
will give me some examples of some great cold open lines, subject lines.
John Livesay 23:41
Is this keeping you up at night and whatever the pain point is, you know, if you’re like many other and then insert whatever the industry is, doctors, you’re struggling to find good help. Right now, I can help.
Will Bachman 24:01
And then if some you know, and obviously if they are struggling to block Yeah, that person isn’t. Yes,
John Livesay 24:07
what I need. Before I know whether I want to open this email or not, because you given me clearly concisely, and hopefully somewhat compellingly a reason to even read this email.
Will Bachman 24:19
Right. Right. Okay. What about reaching out to people that you have worked in the past or that, you know, you know, that aren’t purely cold. That would be like a little bit off putting if it was someone that actually knows you’d be like, you know, what’s right, John, it’s like weird for you to email me like that. Correct? Yeah. What’s your tips on sort of trying to?
John Livesay 24:44
Well, one of my biggest tips that people don’t do for some reason and when they start doing it, they’re it’s this big lightbulb moment for them is if you have a relationship with somebody you’re trying to build one. funnel them on LinkedIn, and then any other social media like and comment on their posts. So when it does come time for you to reach out and connect again, you’re not they haven’t heard. It’s not like it’s cold that they haven’t heard from you in three or six months. And they feel like you’re staying connected to them, you know, oh my gosh, I saw you just got married, congratulations on the latest stock price increase or the latest merger, you have something relevant and present that is showing them that that you see them as a person.
Will Bachman 25:28
Give me a picture of your typical or an example engagement with a client, you sort of already said, give us a few stories of what you came up with. But in just in terms of like, the duration and the amount of in person contact in the process? Is it sure like a two day thing? Are you typically working, you know, intensely for two months? Or how do you engage with clients?
John Livesay 25:51
Yep, well, typically, the first engagement is we need to sales keynote speaker to kick off our annual meeting or buy whatever it is. And sometimes they want to our workshop after the keynote. Or sometimes they just are looking for a great opening speaker to kick off the meeting and give them a new tool that they can start using right away, which in this case, is storytelling. And then, more often than not, they’ll say, oh, my god, that was so great. We need to hire you just for an upcoming pitch as the case of the example of the architecture firm with a airport pitch coming up when the stakes are very high. And there’s a lot of money involved. And that can involve a two day process, where I’ll fly to whatever city they’re in, and they assemble the team and they’re practicing. Who’s going to say, what, what’s the order? What’s the, you know, making sure that the opening of the pitch is compelling, and not something boring, like, thank you for this opportunity. We’re excited to be here. That’s the biggest mistake I see everybody making? Well, first of all, it’s cliche. Everyone says it’s not memorable. And nobody cares that you’re excited. It’s not about you. Or the closing that they go, Well, that’s all we got any questions? Oh, my God, that’s the worst close you could ever give to a pitch. So and I’ll work with them on what to say in the team slide. And with those stories of origins, to bring that to life, and then the case stories. And, you know, usually that’s a two day process. I’ve had clients decide that they want to put their entire sales team of 200 people through the online course, and get some group coaching. That goal goes along with that. And then they’ve created a repository of stories that live on a map. And you can click on any story and use that story if you don’t have a story like that for a particular client. And they’ve done that it actually helps break down silos, which is an unexpected outcome, because it had three separate sales divisions that weren’t cross selling at all. And they’d get into one hospital with one product, but not the other two. And the reps never knew how to even make an introduction. And now they have a short little story that allows them to make intros.
Will Bachman 27:58
That’s amazing. But I’d love to get into a little bit the those things you were talking about in terms of the pitch some of the specifics. You said like normal open is terrible. Oh, we’re happy to be here? Well, of course you are you. So what’s a great open?
John Livesay 28:16
Well, the one that we did for the architecture from that one, the airport, was your CEO is tasked you from getting this airport ranked number 24 to number one in the next five years. We’ve assembled a custom team that knows how to do that, because we’ve done that for another airport. And that’s why we’re here to help you achieve that goal your CEO has tasked you with.
Will Bachman 28:38
John Livesay 28:39
it’s about them. You’ve done some research, you know what a big mountain they have to climb. You’ve insinuated that this team is not just some slap hazard. Well, we just picked five people who are available to come talk to you today. Know this, we started to edify the team before anybody opens their mouth.
Will Bachman 28:55
Yeah. And what about a close? What’s a killer closes it Oh, any questions? That’s, that’s the end of our last page saw
John Livesay 29:02
we got that done. I like your cartoon. Right. This is the time when you start to tug at the heartstrings. When I was working with them on that airport presentation, one of them said, you know, I’m from Pittsburgh, and as someone who travels around the world and gets assigned to work on airports for two to three years at a time, winning this airport in my hometown would be a hometown game. For me. This is not just another project for me. I would be so passionate to be able to make this airport in Pittsburgh, something we would have for all the people who live here something we’d be proud of when anybody landed in our city to see how the city has evolved from just a steel town to becoming a tech hub. This is something you would have my full time commitment on that this would be a personal passion to get this job. I got it. That’s cool.
Will Bachman 30:00
And what about the team page? You say you got some tips there?
John Livesay 30:03
I do. Normally the team pages, you know, first of all, they said, you have to run out of time, we’ll cut this slide and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, that’s the most important slide of the whole pitch, especially when they said the criteria is likability, because they’re going to pick the firm they like the most, because you could all do the work or you wouldn’t be in the final three. No, oh, well, we just usually get up there and say, My name is Bob, I’ve been here 10 years I do this. But Bob, what made you become an architect? Oh, well, I played with Legos when I was 10. And now I have a son. That’s 10. I still play with Legos with him. I’m passionate about architecture. Fantastic. So where were you before here? I was in the Israeli army. Okay, I bet you’ve heard about focus and discipline. And since you’ve been assigned on this team, if they win to be the one bringing this thing on time and under budget, you have the perfect background. Those little short stories of origin, make people feel like Oh, I get them. I want to work with them. I know something about them.
Will Bachman 31:06
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s fun when you sometimes see some firms website, and they have the team on there. And then they’ll be like, something interesting. That’d be like the person’s hobby, or the person’s like, dog’s name or something. Right. That’s, it makes people feel a little bit more human. And not just the standard. Yes, boring. Resume read kind of thing. Perfect. So John, if listeners want to follow up, find your content. I think maybe you have a free chapter or something. Yeah. And book you for a major keynote just out of the blue. Where will you point them online?
John Livesay 31:48
I’ve actually had people have heard hear me on a podcast and you know, buy the book and decide to have me as a speaker, so it’s not so out of the blue, it’s a great way for people to find speakers. You take out your phone and text the word pitch with a P P ai tch. 266866, you can get the first chapter of my book, this sale is in the tail, which is a business fable about someone struggling in a sales slump, pushing out facts and learning how to tell stories to make their career take off. And if you can’t remember my name, John livesey.com, or the name of the book, the sale is in the tail, just Google the pitch whisperer, and all my content shows up there
Will Bachman 32:25
as genius. Now, I’m curious, technically, how did you set that thing up? That’s pretty cool. You know, how do you do?
John Livesay 32:32
It’s a company called joined by text. And you it’s much easier and people are much more willing to text a word in a number to opt in to get something versus asking people to go to the website and type in their name.
Will Bachman 32:47
Is that right? Mm hmm. No kidding. So especially
John Livesay 32:51
young people, you know, like, oh, take out my phone, okay. Text a number. And then you still have to put your email in, but you’re putting it in, and you’re instantly getting something you know, texted to you,
Will Bachman 33:00
and it goes to their phone. Do you? Do you get the phone numbers from joined by text? Do they pass? No, just the email? Just the email. So wait a minute, so join by text. So someone texts and they’re going to text the number pitch?
John Livesay 33:18
They check this number? Uh huh. Yeah. So you know, if you’re sending a text to somebody, you got to type in a number and then for the message you put in the word pitch,
Will Bachman 33:26
right? So then they’re gonna get a text back right to their phone
John Livesay 33:30
saying, Yep. Oh, thanks for you know, asking about the free chapter of the sales in the tail. Just put in your email and it will send it right off. Oh, I
Will Bachman 33:37
see. So then they have to put in their email. I gotcha. All right. I was thinking that you were going to like send them a link to download it or something directly to their phone, but you are then getting their email. So then you get you get the email addresses so that you could talk with people. Right? That’s a pretty cool thing joined by text. All right. Yeah. That’s a pretty neat thing.
John Livesay 33:58
Yeah, people love it.
Will Bachman 34:01
I am going to look into that alright, John by text. Cool. Well, hey, we got your we got your website, we got your joined by text number. We will put those in the show notes. John, it’s been fantastic speaking with you. Thanks for helping my pitch. Appreciate that. You’re welcome. And it’s been a great discussion and listeners. If you are so inclined to give the show a five star review on iTunes but not otherwise. It really does help listeners discover the show. Thank you for listening.