465. Marshall Butler

Will Bachman 00:01

Welcome to Unleashed the show that explores how to thrive as an independent professional. I’m your host will Bachman and I’m here today with Marshall Butler, who’s the Chief Marketing Officer for wealth and Investment Management at Wells Fargo. Marshall, welcome to the show.

Marshall Butler 00:18

Thank you. Well, thanks for the invitation. It’s great to talk to you.

Will Bachman 00:21

So, Marshall, it’s great to catch up again. We met years and years ago when you were at BlackRock, and now Wells Fargo. We talked about today, covering the world of data and how it’s revolutionizing marketing, particularly for wealth and investment management firms. Let’s start out with why is data so important? And what’s what’s going on with data in terms of wealth Investment Management?

Marshall Butler 00:50

Yeah, no, absolutely. And again, you know, great to reconnect? Well, as he said, It’s been a while since we worked together at BlackRock, and yeah, good to connect today. So, you know, the world of marketing is, you know, has undergone like a lot of industries or businesses disciplines, you know, tremendous transformation over the last 10 years in the digital space. And I think, you know, that the root of it is, is data and how data really offends the old adage, if you recall, you know, the CEO is talking to his chief marketing officer and says to that individual, I know that half of your budget is wasted, I just don’t know which half and, and that’s just not true anymore. You know, everything is, is really measurable and understandable. The expression that I that I like, which is a little trite, but but I still think it is, it is appropriate is that, you know, data in the 20/21 century is like oil in the 18th century. To a large degree, it is untapped. It is worth very little if it is unrefined. But it’s absolutely essential, and fuels, modern, modern business. And I think that’s definitely true. And in the experience economy, if you think about tech giants, you know, really their whole business model is data, and everything that they’re doing around their customer data is fascinating and very relevant to the world in which I’ve built my career in wealth and Investment Management management. And if you think about successful tech companies, they’ve really purposely built processes and products that generate data not as a byproduct of the operation, but really as an asset. That is that is developed and then can be monetized. either directly or indirectly, if you think about what that means for us in Investment Management or wealth advisory, needless to say, there is a profound amount of data that we have available by virtue of how we serve our clients. Now, if it can be harnessed in and I need to be, you know, you know, really thoughtful here, because, of course, you know, there needs to be really strict accordance with regulatory guidelines and, and privacy requirements. But if it can be harnessed to serve clients more effectively in a more personalized or intuitive manner, it can be it can be extremely powerful. Now, again, it’s not without its risks, as I mentioned around privacy concerns. But I think that there is an opportunity, you know, with data to provide real tangible value to, to clients through marketing.

Will Bachman 03:45

So, wealth and investment, management seems to be a very to me to be a hard thing to market, because it’s so intangible what the service offering is, and everybody wants to kind of say the same thing, like, Oh, we’re gonna keep your money secure, but we’re gonna get you good, really, really good return. And you’re, you know, probably mostly going after a lot of the same high net worth individuals. So talk to me a little bit about how you can how wealth and investment management firms are using data. And we can go through different parts of it. But let’s first start with just understanding the customers and the different customer segments and different customer needs. And then using that to figure out which of those you want to position yourselves for. Can you talk about how data is being used in those areas?

Marshall Butler 04:37

Yeah, as you mentioned, well, it it can be it can be challenging, insofar as you know, in many ways are it is a utterly non commoditized business because the nature of the service that we provide baffling or high net worth or ultra high net worth or institutional clients is so personalized, but as he points out, that the messaging can be can be really complex, in terms of how you, you articulate your value differently than others, which is where I think, you know, modern modern marketing, the digital environment and data, you know, kind of creates the opportunity to sort of say, Alright, there’s the message, but then what’s the medium that you’re using to express to express that message? And where are they going to find it? So, for example, you know, I work at a large, large bank, as you mentioned, one of the benefits of our business model is, is we can prospect for potential wealth management clients from within our retail banking population. And because we know who they are, we can use first party data to find them not just within our own channels and environment, but also in the, in the broader, broader digital world, you know, we can, we can take, you know, information around around, you know, customers 100% anonymized, and then and then sort of upload them to, to sort of streaming services, whether it’s through Google or Facebook, and they’re in their ecosystems, and then identify those folks out there in there in the real world, we all know that it’s often, if not always more profitable, sell more to an existing client than it is to acquire new clients. But our ability to find our customers to find Wells Fargo customers in the broader world and say, That’s great, you know, we know that they have a mortgage with us, we know that they have a credit card with us, wouldn’t it be terrific if we could serve them even more extensively in the wealth management space? And wouldn’t it be great if we could find them in the broader world where they may be shopping for for those kinds of those kinds of services? I think that’s, that’s particularly exciting. On the on the other side of things on the sort of the b2b side of things, maybe in the investment management world, you know, the ability to use data, for leads, is also is also is also incredible, you know, I think there’s certainly lots of ways to drive leads, you know, search engine marketing, is, of course, a highly, highly efficient way of doing so and we certainly do a lot of that. But but you want to make sure, though, that, that you’re deriving qualified leads, and there’s a terrific opportunity to use data and AI to improve the productivity of the frontline, you know, through your CRM solution, lead scoring, and prioritization, you know, we’re able to determine the characteristics and behaviors of a lead, that is most likely to convert and therefore, you know, creating really valuable leads, that allows that allows the frontline to be really efficient in their use of in their use of time. And what we’ve seen and I’m, I’m confident we’re not alone in the industry, is really a double digit proven, and Frontline, Frontline, productivity, based on sort of data, data, grounded lead scoring and prioritization of leads that leaves that come in.

Will Bachman 08:21

Give me some examples of that, of what that, you know, lead scoring, looks like in practice. And so if, if I’m a frontline employee, what what sorts of data am I looking at? And then maybe kind of trace back where that data came from? And how it got scored? And so forth?

Marshall Butler 08:39

Yeah, yeah, what we’re able to ascertain, based on based on a user pattern of engagements, you know, a lead that is most likely to convert, now look, in our industry. If this isn’t like, you know, buying toothpaste, it’s a highly, highly considered purchase. So chances are, you’re not, I mean, sometimes this happens, but chances are, you know, your first click is not like, Great, I’m ready to I’m ready to buy. Oftentimes, it’s really, and I think, where we’ve been most successful, it’s really a nurturing, you know, set of X set of activities. So for example, let me think of something that might be that might be relevant here. You know, I think this actually really gets into kind of how we think about client journeys, but let me give you an example of something that we’ve thought about. So let’s, let’s imagine we have an affluent, we have an affluent, you know, customer out there, you know, let’s assume that they that they bank, with, with us or, you know, or, you know, generic large financial institution, so therefore, we have some, we have some first party data. You know, this individual is worried about inflation As a number of are many people are in the current environment, and wonders, and wonders about what that could mean, you know, for for her portfolio, let’s assume she doesn’t have an advisor, but she’s thinking, Gosh, I’m concerned about inflation. I don’t have a financial advisor. But I don’t know, are they worth is a financial advisor worth it? And so she Google’s exactly that, you know, are financial advisors worth it? Well, you know, she’s then some served, you know, content, you know, through through our, you know, through the sort of Google ecosystem, you know, which sort of addresses Exactly, exactly that, that question and a director, perhaps, to a microsite, to learn more about the benefits of a, of a financial adviser. And so she, so she reads through that, and it’s interesting, but she doesn’t really, she doesn’t really, you know, do anything with it. But again, let’s assume she’s, she’s, she’s been cookie, you know, she’s a customer of the bank. And so therefore, you know, we’re able to serve her additional content, you know, throughout throughout her day. So let’s assume later in the day, she’s on Facebook, and she sees content from her bank, including a financial preparedness quiz, you know, perhaps on the topic of are you prepared for, you know, for an, you know, rising levels of inflation, so she completes the quiz. And, you know, perhaps the ad unit then asked her if she’s ready for a consultation on the topic, again, maybe not, not quite ready. But she likes the content enough, that she signs up for the newsletter, to learn more, and this is when we then get into the nurturing activities, she selects, you know, topics of interest to her and the frequent she wish she would like to see those topics. And then over time, we then, you know, drip on her with with content. Perhaps this goes on for months, six months, maybe a year, but over time, you know, she’s ready, you know, what, I’m ready to speak with somebody. And then she does schedule a free consultation with an advisor, now the advisor in the CRM solution that the advisor is using the data that is piped through, knows, okay, this is the content that this individual has been engaging, and she’s interested in the inflation topic. And so therefore, that advisor is better prepared to have a thoughtful conversation with with that prospect. When, when the time comes. So the adviser meets with her, let’s say they have a good meeting invites her to a seminar to learn more about inflation protected portfolios, for example, and says, Hey, you know, would you like to invite a friend. And so and so this individual says, Great, I’ll invite my friend, Sam. And then all of a sudden, a new lead journey begins, you know, we have, you know, contact information, email contact information for Sam. And we can also then begin dripping content on that individual with the intent of driving the lead. So hopefully, that based on that example, you can see how, you know, ideally, this is a value added set of interactions, it’s a value added customer journey for the, for the prospect, which simultaneously provides us with with helpful data to, to help that financial adviser to convert that prospect, you know, into into an actual client. But having done so in a way that they’re adding value along the way now that again, that’s the, that’s the Win win here, you know, the digital environment enables us to capture data on the individual, but that’s only really useful if it is actually valuable to that prospect. And if it’s valuable to that prospect, it should be valuable to the, to the advisor. So that’s I don’t know, that’s an example, which I think is pretty, pretty exciting. And honestly, well, if you think back to the days in which you and I first worked together 10 years ago, none of this would have been possible, which is, which makes it a pretty exciting set of about

Will Bachman 13:59

So in that example, but a few questions about it. So it sounds like somewhere, the computer system, you know, the, you know, some kind of intelligence, that might not be a person looking at it, but some somewhere the system actually would know all of these different things about the person that, okay, we put, we serve this person, this Facebook quiz, this person has visited the website three times they’ve looked on these specific articles, they’ve, you know, you know, they looked at our, they sign up for this newsletter, and they’ve opened this, these specific things and clicked on these specific links. So the system has that. When the, if an advisor speaks to that person, are they seeing all those different interactions? Are they more just sort of seeing something that’s relatively synthesized and says this person cares about inflation?

Marshall Butler 14:49

Yeah, great, great question. Yeah. So it’s, it is more often than not the latter, because of course, advisors are busy professionals, you know, you know, it may not be particularly helpful. for them to know how they answered two questions six on the quits, right. And so I think that through a combination of you know, and usually it’s some discernment on the part of, you know, sales strategy professional or a marketer, we’re able to say, look, and in in, you know, you know, conversations with advisors, what’s the information that’s going to be most helpful to you? Well, look, I’d love to know, these kinds of things, I think from what the system is able to do, though, over time, as it learns Is that is that clients with this kind of profile clients that that engage with, with us across, let’s call it seven, eight different touches are more likely to convert. So what this enables us to do, if nothing else, it is to provide a scoring system, hey, this is a terrific lead, you should jump on this one immediately, because they’ve exhibit they have exhibited behaviors, one through six, which we know, you know, you know, based on past experience, you know, tend to be the behaviors that convert relatively quickly. On the other hand, maybe this lead, well, they’ve exhibited, you know, behaviors one through three, they’re a moderate lead, I wouldn’t put it on the top of your to do list, but perhaps, you know, if you have time available, you know, give them a call, or let’s keep an eye on them and see if see, if, if they engage, engage further. So that’s, that’s where, where the sales, team productivity gains really come into play, because you then have got your sales teams focused on leads that you know, tend to convert, versus, versus them sort of chasing down everything, when when, you know, in the broad in the broad universe of leads, you know, you know, there may be some that are that are less valuable than others.

Will Bachman 17:01

And to these algorithms, are they becoming sort of just AI driven black boxes, so that there’s not really necessarily human intelligence behind it anymore of saying, it’s more just the the AI is looking at, which leads converted, and then doing a bunch of sophisticated, you know, calculations to figure out what are the different indicators that suggest that a lead is likely, but not someone actually trying to? You know, just program that in there? It’s more just the AI figuring it out?

Marshall Butler 17:37

Yeah. No, there’s still a massive role for, you know, for human engagement. I mean, I think, you know, the, the large CRM providers out there in the world, have created extremely powerful tools, which are very easy to use. And, and, obviously, we use, we use several of them. But in my experience, you know, that they’re, you know, what, as you’re going through the deployment of a new CRM solution, or a new marketing, you know, sort of leads management marketing solution, there is a really key piece of the, of the process where you’re sitting down again, with sort of marketer who’s sort of setting all this up with a sales leader, to say, okay, look, let’s let’s just simply talk about, you know, the kind of leads that you want, you know, and then let’s try to ascertain what the behaviors might be, again, there’s going to be some, some experience and knowledge based on what what the marketer has seen, that has worked, you know, the CRM provider, no doubt has a perspective here. But at the end of the day, the actual lead scoring and the character and the quality and the characteristics and in look, this is a this is certainly a an ongoing and ongoing debate, tricky situation between sales and marketing, how do we know these leads are valuable? And I think there is a lot of discernment and qualitative assessment that has to happen in partnership with the sales team, of course, no marketer wants to wants to hear Yeah, great, your your campaign, you know, generated 100 leads, but they’re all garbage, so that nobody wants that. So there is, you know, the that process of the lead scoring is going to be informed by the algorithm, but it is ultimately going to be you know, something that has to be aligned on and agreed to between, you know, the sales leadership and the marketing leadership to ensure that these are the kinds of leads we actually want.

Will Bachman 19:40

I’m curious about what would be crummy leads where it might on appearance look good. Maybe the person is sign up for newsletter and they attended a seminar or they read a bunch of articles. But if you actually, you know, but they never convert or their categories like that, that just tend to be really You know, crummy leads that maybe in the old days you might have spent time on but with the more sophistication today, you could identify those.

Marshall Butler 20:10

Yeah, I’m trying to think of a good example. I mean, I think, you know, let me sort of a very generic example, you know, let’s say, you know, typically, and it’s hard, right, and you want, the more data you can capture, the better, right, because that, that allows you to be smarter. So in the past, you know, if somebody said, you know, we may ask a question around investable assets, you know, what are your investable assets? And because, of course, you know, if they are, you know, a mass affluent customer versus an emerging, you know, high net worth customer, you know, the content that we’re likely to serve them is going to be different based on their sort of financial circumstances. But let’s say they answer that question to the tune of, hey, I’ve got 5 million in investable assets. Well, you know, in the past, you know, a sales a sales leader, May, I said, Wow, that sounds like an awesome prospects, let’s, let’s hop on that immediately. Well, you know, if we’re able to, to have Harvard sort of dig deeper on who that individual is, look, it could be that they’ve already got, you know, multiple relationships with other financial advisors, it could be that they’re not ready to seek out a new provider that they just engaged in the marketplace. And like to, you know, read content and therefore are interested in additional content, but they’re really not, they’re really not on the chopping stage. So now, it could be a good lead over time, that we could nurture, but that would be an example of on the surface may look like a terrific opportunity, because of the scale of their investment assets. But it may be a long conversion cycle. And so perhaps they’re not ready for a per sales touch just yet, it may be better, to throw, you know, much more low cost method for us to market and nurture them over time until we know they’ve exhibited more behaviors that suggests that they are that they are ready.

Will Bachman 22:19

Could you give me a little background? And, you know, not sort of Wells Fargo specific, but just in to kind of how people in the industry think, what are the different sort of tears of customers from just sort of the mass market, you know, going to get a basic checking account to the highest net worth people? What are the different, like tears in there? And then for each tier, what sort of the typical industry standard kind of services or products that are most commonly thought appropriate for that? That level of person?

Marshall Butler 22:53

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the industry has, to a large extent, gravitated around more or less the same definition. So if you start at the at the lower end of the spectrum, you may have what I would call an emerging affluent, these are individuals who, who are not yet affluence. And let’s define affluent as having around 250 and investable assets. And let’s call it let’s assume that that’s X, their, their 401k, or retirement accounts. And emerging affluent, however, is a great longer term prospect, they may not have that level of investable assets, but but we know based on their education, their the industry in which they’re working, the kinds of the kinds of financial activity they’ve already undertaken, that they’re going to be good customers in the future. And so the, in the near term, they may have tremendous lending needs, you know, they may, you know, they’re great opportunity for us on the mortgage front, maybe they’re buying buying a first home, but from an investing standpoint, they probably a good, you know, a great solution for them would be some kind of algorithmic trading account like a robo advisor. So that would be your emerging affluent, your affluent is kind of your core financial advisor market. These folks to a large degree, are saving for retirement. They’re utilizing, you know, their, you know, 401k solution, but they’ve got additional assets that they want to put to work and typically, their, their investing needs are, are, you know, for retirement, for, for health, for health expenses they may have later in their lives or for maybe something like a like a second home or a remodel, and again, that’s your sort of 250 or 250. And that that mass, there’s gonna be that affluent, you know, spectrum can really flex You know, and it can go all the way up to, you know, 10 million $10 million. Now at 10 million, we start thinking about it, you know, very differently, no, then it’s around, what are your philanthropic giving needs? How are you thinking about the next generation? And what kind of trust or or, or solution you may want to provide there? And then it becomes less about just pure investing? And how are you generating great return? But how do you want to use your wealth to express some set of values that you might have, and that could be everything from, from, you know, the kind of impact you want to have in your community from a philanthropic sense to, to what kind of legacy you want to lead to the next generation, and then, at a level even be beyond that, and the ultra high net worth space, this would be your 50 million plus, then it really becomes we sort of jokingly refer to these folks as individuals, you know, in the sense that they tend to exhibit the characteristics of, of both individuals and institutions. And in which case, you’re looking at family office services, and really family dynamics, right. How do you want to think about the family meeting? Oftentimes, these are these are family owned businesses that have been very successful. How do you want to think about that? Well, so that covers the broad category, as you can, as you can, I’m sure, appreciate that, that the big middle that 250 to 10 million is pretty broad. And of course, there’s going to be gradations and levels of service, you know, within that.

Will Bachman 26:38

That’s great. So for the emerging affluent, you mentioned, the typical thing might be a robo algorithmic advisor, what’s sort of the industry standard set of services for that affluent segment?

Marshall Butler 26:50

Well, I think it’s certainly it’s a financial advisor. And then it kind of depends on on on someone’s specific services. I mean, I think it’s partly specific needs. So that financial advisor should, hopefully, depending on the institution, but But certainly, if you’re attached to a large bank, and I think this is even true for the registered investment advisor marketplace, you know, it’s then okay, well, what else do you need? Well, tell me about your, your financial, your financial plans, and we we spend a lot of time thinking with clients around what their financial needs are likely to be going, going forward, what are your ambitions, you know, well, I’ve got a couple of kids, and I want to make sure I’m saving for college, great, I’ve got, maybe I maybe I have a lot of equity tied up in, in my own business. And so I don’t, I may not be liquid at the moment, but I’m anticipating a liquidity event over the next five to 10 years. So maybe I need some, some sort of lending capital in the, in the near term, maybe I’m excited about about getting a vacation home where I can spend, you know, my summers with my children, terrific, let’s talk about mortgage on a on a second home. And, you know, so I think those are the kinds of things that that come into the come into place. And as you can, as you can see, or maybe I want to set up a trust for my for my children. But as you can see the, you know, it’s really the full suite of banking and investing needs that somebody might have. But understood, based on the specific needs of that of that individual. You know, there are certainly lots of clients out there, and that in that absolute space, or, you know, just looking for investment return. And there are lots of providers out there that can help and in there, and there are others that are looking for consultations around a 360 view of their full financial life and financial life is really just like no, because in those examples I mentioned, we’re talking about, you know, saving for a child’s education, we’re talking about a second home to create memories with your children. These are things that go well beyond, you know, finances. And I think what has been fascinating about the industry that I that I’m lucky to work in is just how that role of the advisor has evolved over time or it is evolved from being you know, this is a bit of a, you know, a bit of a simplification, but in the past the reef of the distant past, it was a stock picker. And now it is really a is someone who’s got a hopefully a very strong view of what individuals financial needs are, and what their aspirations are, and are then able to sort of offer, you know, counseling and advice on how to reach those needs. And it could be across both investing products and services and banking products and services.

Will Bachman 29:45

And then in that 10 million to 50 million range that that high net worth, but not ultra high net worth range. What’s the typical type of offering there and how

Marshall Butler 29:56

Yeah, I think it’s it is similar To the affluent, although likely more complex, usually the trust. You know, the trust requirements are more complicated in that regard, but I think where are me, where we see, we’re, you know, where I see really fascinating opportunities for Wealth Advisors to differentiate is around those other kinds of things. Once you’ve reached that level of affluence, you know, retirement is not is not a concern, health savings, not a concern, you may already have the second home. And then I think you’re thinking about broader legacy questions. And I think this it gets into this notion of Have you then in this, it gets, you know, very, you go from the hard world of alpha generation, the investment world into the much sort of softer world of how do I want my wealth to express my values? Yeah. And like, I find that to be the best articulation of the kinds of services that are provided insofar as they they can be. They can be everything from what kind of philanthropic plan do I want to put in place? And how do I optimize that for? You know, from a, from a tax perspective? What are the issues that I care about? How do I want to manage my giving? How do I want to think about ESG, environmental, social governance, I mean, that this has traditionally been, or at least in the, in the past, although it is changing radically and very briskly, this has traditionally been something that was of interest to the high net worth of the now is, is of interest to to all, particularly younger generations of investors. And I think also, I think, finally, we’ll I think the point about how wealth gets passed on to the next generation becomes a really important consideration. And that’s the mechanics of it from a trust perspective. But also what, you know, what are they? How do you want to think about the sort of intra intergenerational family dynamics? And how do you get coached along the way, and I think that the really top tier Wealth Advisors are really attuned to some of those issues, which as I said, aren’t just about sort of maximizing your portfolio return. Of course, that’s, that’s critical, but really also about, you know, how you think about, you know, the legacy you want to leave to your family. And these are, of course, very personal, very, very thoughtful types of issues.

Will Bachman 32:38

Okay, that was super fascinating and helpful. Looping back to the data piece that we talked about before, the theme of our show here today. I’m imagining that there’s this spectrum where with the emerging of fluent, and with the fluent, it’s sort of still a bit of the range of big data where there’s just such a large number of those people. But as you get higher up the scale, it becomes, you know, maybe a much more defined universe of people where I’m just imagining that, like, all of the banks, and all of the Wealth Advisors, almost have sort of a set of baseball cards for the ultra high net worth people and they’re like, you know, named numbers where you could put their pictures up on a wall kind of a thing, and sort of know, okay, you know, whatever the, you know, he meant his family is, you know, currently with whatever black, you know, black rock, and this family, you know, like, you know, where each family is, and you’re tracking them, so it becomes almost less of this big data game and more about relationship game, and where it’s, maybe it’s pretty, probably hard to, you know, pry someone away from another bank and get them to convert to yours. And just curious about that kind of spectrum where at some ends, it’s just much more, no longer big data, but it’s individual by individual, where and then there’s a, probably a place where you’re tracking Okay, who, who signed up for the newsletter? Could you talk about that spectrum? A little bit?

Marshall Butler 34:14

Yeah, no, and look, you’re absolutely right. You know, I think that, you know, the uses of big data, you know, are really to allow you to sort of, sort of churn through, you know, prospects, you know, very, very efficiently when the universe is enormous. When the universe is the top, you know, several 100 families, you know, in the country and what their wealth needs are likely to be you’re absolutely right. You know, I if you’re a top tier wealth advisor, you probably know No, no, everyone you need to know. And then I think it’s, it’s into a much more nuanced but no less strategic sort of setup. of marketing, you know, capabilities. So, you know, for example, it you know, your events strategy becomes becomes really critical. You know, how do you think about creating the environment and content, you know, add in thought leadership, where, where someone is going to want to come and spend some and spend some time with you? I think one of the things, I think that that has been interesting in the industry, is that folks have that level of affluence, or do appreciate the opportunity to be in an environment with others at that same at that same level of affluence. And so I think if you can create a community around that, such that yes, it’s a it’s a great event, but But what people really enjoy is the frets, or the fraternity of knowing that they’re in, that they’re in a space with others who are facing the same kinds of, of challenges that they are, right. I mean, I think, you know, you know, there are, you know, tremendous wealth, of course, is a tremendous blessing, but there are real risks to that. And in terms of what what it could mean for the next generation. And I think, isn’t it? Isn’t it wonderful if you can create an environment and where candid conversations of folks who are in a fairly unique situation can have that dialogue? So I think that’s, that’s, that’s definitely something that we think about from a marketing standpoint. I think the other though, to your point, you know, you know, don’t we already know who all these folks are? I think that’s true, but then you want to think about, alright, well, if we don’t have a relationship with them? How do we think about that, and I think this is where Centers of Influence marketing becomes really important, you know, if you’re a high net worth, or an ultra high net worth, individual, you know, your accountant is a pretty important, pretty important person, your your, your estate lawyer is a pretty important person, how do we ensure or how does really any sort of wealth management firm ensure that they’re on the radar screens, of those of those influencers, if you will, those folks that are going to have a pretty good opportunity to to determine if there is an instance in which a family or a high net worth individual is thinking about changing Wealth Advisors, that you’re on the radar screen of, of a group or set of individuals that are likely to influence that decision. And so that’s a, that’s a kind of a, you know, one, one step removed type of marketing activity, but ensuring, you know, in, in fitness or traditional marketing speak, that that those influencers, have got the awareness, consideration and, and, and esteem, you know, for, you know, the wealth management firms such that when the situation create, you know, you know, is a is present, that that that the wealth management firm is in the consideration set by virtue of its connection with these folks who influenced that decision.

Will Bachman 38:02

This is such a fascinating world that I have so little experience with, it’s really cool. I mean, I could spend the whole day, you know, asking you for stories about how these events are run and who goes to them and what you cover. But I think we need to, we need to pull, we need to wrap it up here. Marshall, if folks want to learn more about, you know, your firm and the work that you do, where would you point them online?

Marshall Butler 38:29

Ah, well, certainly, you know, wellsfargo.com That’s my employer. We certainly have a wealth of information there, no pun intended. You know, that is a that’s a great spot. I think. If you’re interested in how Wells Fargo thinks about the marketplace, the Wells Fargo investment Institute is a great resource. If you’re interested in how we serve. You know, our high net worth ultra high net worth, Wells Fargo Private Bank is a great resource and Wells Fargo Advisors is the core of our wealth management franchise, which is our financial advisors. I would say to that if folks have got specific questions. I’m always happy to connect. You can find me on LinkedIn, Marshall Butler.

Will Bachman 39:14

All right. We will include those links in the show notes. Marshall, thank you so much for joining today. This was fascinating.

Marshall Butler 39:19

Oh, thank you. Well, I really appreciate you. You having me and thanks for your interest.