Podcast

Episode: 292 |
Brian Ahearn:
Prinicples of Influence:
Episode
292

HOW TO THRIVE AS AN
INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL

Brian Ahearn

Prinicples of Influence

Show Notes

Brian Ahearn has been certified by Robert Cialdini to teach his influence methodology. Through keynote speeches, coaching, and training sessions, Brian helps professionals understand the full set of influence tools.

If you have a premium LinkedIn account, check out his LinkedIn Learning courses: Persuasive Selling, Persuasive Coaching and Persuading Different Personality Styles

Learn more about Brian’s work at his firm’s website:

https://www.influencepeople.biz/

One weekly email with bonus materials and summaries of each new episode:

Will Bachman 00:01
Hello, and welcome to Unleashed the show that explores how to thrive as an independent professional Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which connects you with the world’s top independent management consultants. I’m your host Will Bachman. And I’m here today with Brian Heron, who is an expert in influence. He runs a firm called influence people LLC. And he’s written a book of the same title. Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me on. I’m excited to be here. Well, so Brian, you know, after a long career, you know, doing internal sales training an insurance company, you set up your own practice now, doing sales, training, training, you know, on principles of influence and persuasion. to both I understand, you know, sales people as well as executives and coaches, let’s talk about persuasive selling, because all the listeners of this show, we need to deliver our work as well as, as well as you know, get the projects. Talk to me Give me like, let’s let’s do it like a compressed version of one of your sessions? What are some of the key principles of persuasive selling that that we should be aware of?

Brian Ahearn 01:13
Okay, well, let me let me start with this. Brian Tracy, a very well known author and sales trainer says selling is the process of persuading a person that the value of what you’re offering is greater than the price you’re asking. I mean, that’s really what it comes down to is this, you’re having a persuasive conversation, trying to change somebody’s behavior and get them to say yes to whatever your product or service or maybe it’s an idea that you’re selling. And when I encountered the psychology of influence, the light bulb came on for me, and I realized, this is the underpinning of all selling. When you understand what we call these principles of influence, you understand the psychology that either gets people to say yes, or why some people fail. So, you know, that’s kind of a high level setup on why we talk about persuasive selling. These principles that we talk about were popularized by a man named Dr. Robert Cialdini. And I’m sure that many of your listeners have heard of Dr. Cialdini, because he’s the most cited living social psychologist on the planet when it comes to the science of influence. And his book, influence science and practice, which came out in the mid 80s, has sold umpteen millions of copies. And it’s gone through many rewrites in several editions. But he he synthesized all of this information that was kind of out there, when it came to persuasion and pulled it in and talked about these six principles of influence, that I think really helps people wrap their minds around this subject that can be so overwhelmingly big. And what we do is, we look at these principles that he popularized, and I very specifically take them and help sales people apply them throughout the sales process. So as an example, when when somebody is in a prospecting phase, the question really is, you know, why would somebody want to give you any of their time, because every salesperson is asking for just 15 minutes, which is always at least 30. And people who are in positions to make decisions, especially upper level executives, and large corporation, if they gave that 15 minutes to everybody who asked, they’d have no time to do anything else. So as a salesperson, you really need to be focused on why would anybody want to give me their time and some of the psychology that would come into play, there are the principles that we call authority, consensus and scarcity. Authority being if somebody is going to give you their time, they’re going to want to know that you are some type of expert, or that the firm that you represent, is well known and has expertise, something that they can rely on that could make their business better. We talked about consensus or sometimes known as social proof, who else are you dealing with? That’s benefiting from this, right? Because if you have this stable of customers who are similar to the one that you’re reaching out to, and they’re all succeeding, that’s a powerful message, that that prospect should give you some of his or her time. And then finally, it would be scarcity. What do you offer that they can’t probably get or get in the form that you offer it somewhere else? Because if what you’re offering is the same as what everybody else is, well, there’s no reason to necessarily go with you. Now, we go a lot deeper into this, but it’s a compelling case. If If you have demonstrated authority, that you’ve got the social proof of look at all these others who are benefiting from what we do, and hey, by the way, you can get what we offer exactly what we offer anywhere else. That’s a compelling reason. somebody to say, I’ll give you that 15 minutes. I’m interested enough at this point. So that’s an example of one small aspect of the sales process. But how this psychology applies, because the only goal at that point is can I get them to give me the first meeting? And I’ve got to build build that case. And psychologically, that’s the best way to approach it. What it isn’t, is, let me throw the kitchen sink at you and hope something sticks.

Will Bachman 05:28
Yeah, remind me that I think and shell Dinis book, he goes over, I think, what six principles? Right? Could you remind us of the other three?

Brian Ahearn 05:37
Sure. So we have reciprocity, which is that obligation we feel to get back when someone first gives to us. There’s the principle of liking. It’s easier for people to say yes to us if they know us, like us, and trust us. And then there’s the principle of consistency, which says most people have this internal psychological pressure, as well as an external social pressure to be consistent in what they say what they do. So those are the other three principles in addition to authority, consensus and scarcity.

Will Bachman 06:09
Okay, cool. So talk to us about some of the key kind of lessons that you’d give, you know, let’s just give us kind of the quick, the quick tour, if you were giving a one or two day session on persuasive selling, what are some of the key points you want the salespeople to take away from that?

Brian Ahearn 06:29
Okay? Let’s start with liking. It’s true that somebody doesn’t have to like you, to do business with you. But the only reason they’re going to do business with you, if they don’t like you is that you, you have something that they absolutely can’t get elsewhere, that you kind of have over a barrel. And that’s, that’s pretty rare in this environment that we find ourselves in, because whether it’s technology or other things, they change so quickly, that that first mover advantage diminishes really quickly. So when I talk to salespeople, I really emphasize the principle of liking. But it’s not so much will about me, getting you to like me, it’s much more about me using that same psychology to come to like you. Because when that other person really begins to get a sense that you like them? Well, we all believe deep down that friends do right by friends, and all of a sudden the defenses start to come down. And there becomes this sense of, wow, that person really does seem to like me and care about my needs, and really wants to help. And they become much more open to whatever you might put on the table. The good news is, the more you as a salesperson come to know and like the customers and the prospective customers that you’re working with, the more that you do want their best, you know, as I’ve worked with clients Now, over the years, and I really get to know them and get to know their operations and know them on a personal level, I really do want their best. And they they receive it that way. And it doesn’t mean that every time what I put on the table will be the best decision for them. Because I don’t have all of their information. But based on what I know, when I put something on the table, they receive it differently. It’s not just oh, here’s somebody trying to sell me something. It’s Brian knows us. And he likes us and he has our best interests at heart. Let’s give this a close look.

Will Bachman 08:26
That’s interesting. So that’s a little counterintuitive. So rather than trying to be liked, trying try instead to like your prospective client or your client, right? And what are your tips for doing that? How do you actually go out and try to like someone.

Brian Ahearn 08:42
So here’s, here’s the really good news will the same things that will make you like me, will make me like you. So when we find out that we have something in common, you know, and as you and I chatted before we did this podcast, and we both realize we grew up in the same small town in Connecticut, I mean that instantly when I saw that, that that created this sense of liking towards you. And I started thinking about all those good memories of simsbury. And you get tied to those memories and, and so all of a sudden, it’s it becomes easier to like you because we have that in common. Now, for other people, it might be that they have the same pet that they went to the same university, that they cheer for the same team. But but you probably know this too, that when you realize somebody cheers for your team, all of a sudden, they get the benefit of the doubt. It’s like, you know, he’s a good guy, or she’s a good lady, if they cheer for your team. So it’s really important that we not only find these things out, but then we actively talk about them. Because the more it works on you to come to like that person again, the more they open up, but at the same time the good news is they’re also coming to like you because you share those things in common. So that’s that’s One way and the other a simple way is to look for ways to give genuine compliments. Because when you look for something that’s good, and somebody and you raise it to the surface, you speak it to them, or you put that in an email the whole time, you’re convincing yourself, they’re a pretty good person. And, and it becomes easier to find those other positive attributes. And that’s where that person not only do they like the fact that you have recognized something they’ve done well, but all of a sudden, you know, the endorphins are flowing, they look forward to their interaction with you. And so liking is really happen in both ways. And that’s how, really people should go about building their relationship, not how can I get will to like me, it’s how can I come to like, will, and I will just at that point, let nature take its course. And I’ve seen it work for decades.

Will Bachman 10:53
Alright, that’s pretty cool. Okay. So seek to like your prospective clients. Okay, great, Tim, what’s the next step?

Brian Ahearn 11:02
Another tip would be tapping into the principle of consistency. Now, the principle of consistency. As I said earlier, people feel this, this internal and external pressure to be consistent in what they say and what they do. The mistake that most people make, whether they’re salespeople, leaders, business coaches, is that they tell people what to do. And when you tell somebody what to do, you have not engaged that psychology, because they haven’t committed to anything. And so they’re not feeling that internal pressure to live up to their word. So the simple piece of advice that I give people is this, stop telling, start asking, when you ask somebody, Hey, can you give me that sales report by Tuesday, and they say, Yes, they are far more likely to get you that sales report than if you just walked by their desk and say, Hey, I need that sales report by Tuesday, they could look at you later and guide and commit to it, I didn’t hear you, I was too busy. You know, they, they don’t feel that same drive, because they haven’t committed to something. But when you ask, even if they don’t want to necessarily do it, once they put that out there, we all we all at different times, feel this drive within, like, I don’t want to let myself down, I committed to that person, I don’t want to let myself down. And so this is why it is so important to move away from telling people what to do, and start asking them. Now there’s always the danger to that they could say no, right? I could say hey, can you give me the sales report by Tuesday, and they say I’m really busy, I’m not going to be able to meet that. But there’s another principle called reciprocity, right? Which the obligation to give when someone first gives, if I give a little and say, Hey, you know, Joe, I realize that everybody’s really busy around here. Any chance you could get it to me by Wednesday, before the end of the day, quite often a concession like that is met with a reciprocal concession. And so the smart leader doesn’t ask for something on the day they need it. They they back that up, and they give themselves opportunities for fallback positions in case the person that they’re making the request of says no to them, then they can have these fallback positions. And it’s not a guarantee that somebody will say yes, every time, but I do guarantee your listeners this, they’ll hear Yes, a lot more by taking that that thoughtful, strategic approach to their communication.

Will Bachman 13:28
Yeah, no, tell me a little bit, give me an example or some verbiage or some examples of how consistency would apply to sales. So

Brian Ahearn 13:41
when we talk about this principle, too, we also say, you know, people, people generally don’t argue against their own values, their beliefs, their self interest, what they may have said in the past, what they have done in the past. And when you understand this, the more that you can align, whatever it is that you’re selling product service, whatever that is, the more that you can align that with what somebody already said, what they believe what they hold is valuable, etc, the easier it is for them to say yes. So let me give you this word picture. When I worked for the insurance company, in downtown Columbus, it was about a 15 mile drive for me to get up to the suburb where I lived. If my wife called me and said, Hey, I need you to stop by the store to pick up something. If the store was right along the way that I went home. I mean, I literally am driving home, I just have to hop off the highway, running the store, get it out and get back on the highway. The odds of me saying yes, we’re very good. But if what she was asking me to do was going to take me way out of my normal route. I probably was going to say no, right? Because it’s a lot more difficult. That’s a mental picture of when you’re asking somebody to do something if you can align it with what You have learned about their beliefs, their values, what they’ve said what they’ve done in the past, it makes it easier for them to say yes. But if what you’re asking goes way outside those, it’s going to be a lot tougher. So the good salesperson, and I’ll say the good leaders and business coaches understand the value of asking really, really good questions early on, so that they can uncover what those things are, that that other person values. Because once they espouse that they value, that they’re not going to argue against their own self interest, they’ve heard themselves put that on the table, you’re showing that what you are offering completely aligns with that. It makes it so much easier for them to ultimately say yes.

Will Bachman 15:47
Okay. Cool. And, you know, because, and I’ve experienced that sometimes by people who have probably had that training that you give, which is, though often, salespeople ask you, well, you know, if we could, you know, show you X, Y, and Z, would you then, you know, be willing to sign up or extend your contract or whatever, they try to gonna get you to, you know, say provisionally Yes. So that later on, they can come back and say, well, you said before that you would extend your contract,

Brian Ahearn 16:17
right. That’s what we call in sales. It’s called the upfront close. And so that was something that I had learned well, before I understood the psychology. Then when I understood the psychology, I’m like, Okay, now I get why this is such a powerful technique. But the thing is, with all of this psychology, you have to internalize it, so that when you verbalize it, it sounds it is you it’s authentically you, you don’t want to sound like some robot who went to some school and learn this technique, another word for word there turning around and saying it. So when I used to work with independent insurance agents, and we would talk about that particular concept, a way that I might approach it would be something like this, I might say, will, if you are like most of the customers I’ve ever worked with buying insurance is probably not one of your feel good propositions. Am I correct? in that? Yes. Yeah, you know, it’s this is not like going out and buying a car, big screen TV, you know, hopefully, insurance is something that you, you know, God forbid, that you never have to use. And so I understand that this is not something that people look forward to. And I know you’re a busy guy, and actually, I’m pretty busy too. And so I want to put something on the table that potentially would save us both some time. Are you open to having that short conversation? Sure. Yeah. And, and what I would, what I would simply say is, well, I just want to have a frank conversation with you to really understand, what will it take for you to move your insurance to our agency, you’ve been with your current agent for a long time. And and I think that’s awesome. I mean, I want my customers to stay with me for a long time, too. So I really need to know what it is going to take. And I tell you what, this is where the time saving will come in. If you tell me something, and I can’t do it. I’m just going to be upfront and honest and say, You know what, we’ll I think you got a great deal there, I won’t be able to help you. I’ll remove myself from the situation. And that’s one less insurance agent you have to deal with. Is that fair?

Will Bachman 18:21
Yeah. So you have a whole kind of script that you walk people through?

Brian Ahearn 18:24
Yeah, but I won’t call it a script will. Because I mean, I just I just said that off the top of my head, I haven’t written nowhere. I, I’ve internalized this to the point where I understand how to communicate it. And I understand the value of asking those questions. I mean, all along that process there, I kept asking you questions, just to gain a little bit of buy in, because I wanted you to be able to ultimately say if you know, this sounds fair, that we can have this conversation. And I’m, hopefully, you know, with the build up to this, too, you’ve seen the brains and brains are seems to be a authentic guy, I think he probably will tell me if he can’t do something. So this sounds non threatening and fair. That’s, that’s because I’ve worked with this for so long. And that’s what I tried to help people get to understand the core of this, but then internalize it so that when it comes out, it’s you. It’s it’s your language, it’s how you talk to people. And it sounds very natural. Because the whole goal for this will is that we, we inform people along the way using this psychology, hopefully into decisions that will be in their best interest.

Will Bachman 19:32
I’m curious to hear your tips for reaching out cold particularly, say via LinkedIn, or email to to potential clients. So it’s it’s such a tough thing, because there’s so many people pounding away and sending, you know, LinkedIn connection requests, trying to get on a client’s calendar for elicitor their show who wanted to reach out to someone you know, a client in their industry, what are some things that that you’ve seen as effective? You don’t want to say like, hey, do I need a management consultant? I’m a management consultant, I could help you probably. Yeah. What are some ways that you see of, you know, using these influencing techniques to get people to agree to number one connect with you, and then maybe have a discussion?

Brian Ahearn 20:22
Okay. The best route is always if there’s somebody that you would like to have that conversation with, the best route is always to see who are they connected to currently, and then any of those people that you’re connected to, and you have some relationship with, because we all know, we’ve got a lot of very loose connections on LinkedIn. But But if I, if I realize that my friend Christy is connected to you, I might reach out and say, Hey, Christy, I’d really like to meet this guy, Will. I see that we’ve got a lot of connections in common, but I’ve never spoken with him before. How well do you know him? If she comes back and says, Oh, my gosh, I know, I’m really well, he’s great guy and stuff. Would you make an introduction for me? And and, and I might even give her a little bit of what I’d want her to share with you, you know, just maybe a paragraph on my background. So she doesn’t have to worry about what to say. But I would ask her, would you put us both on a LinkedIn message so we can get that warm introduction, and then I will take it from there. Because if you know, like, and trust her, and she’s referring me, that probably is a safe opportunity for you to give me some time. So so that’s one route. And obviously, that takes effort. I mean, you need to have something, I need to have something I’ll say that I could hand to Christie to say, Christie, here’s like, two paragraphs that you could use to introduce me to will, you know, massage them a little bit, use your own language, but but these are the critical things I’d like him to know. You know, when you make that that warm introduction, you can do the same thing through email, where somebody, you know, would you send that email to will to make this introduction that might be the route that you prefer to go other than than LinkedIn. But, but having that person make the warm introduction, but but having a bio of sorts that you can hand to them, it’s really no different than if I were going to go speak at a conference, I would not rely on somebody to say, Yeah, I met Brian through LinkedIn is great guy, you’re gonna like what he says, No, no, no, no, I’m gonna have a speaker bio that they’re going to read, to get the audience excited about, oh, this guy knows what he’s talking about. I’m curious now what? What is he going to share with us that could potentially help us that same thought process needs to be applied to getting those third party introductions. So that’s one, that’s one thing. Another thing that I’ve found works really well is when when there’s an organization that I want to get my foot in the door, I will start looking on LinkedIn at all the people that are that are working there. And I will try to hone it in on my area of expertise. So maybe if I’m looking to get into an insurance company, I go out there, and I kind of query up all the people who are in Field Sales positions, and I start looking and I’m like, hey, we’ve got a lot of connections in common. And so I start messaging to connect with them. And I might say, Hey, Joe, like you, I spent most of my career in the insurance industry, I saw, we have a lot of people who are in common, so I thought I would reach out to connect, I do that. Because if I all of a sudden start getting a lot of connections within that particular company, then the decision makers that I’m ultimately moving toward, when they see something come through, and they’re like, hey, Scott is connected to you know, dozens of people here in the company, that must be somebody that I should, you know, give some time to, or make the exceptive request to connect on LinkedIn. So I try to build this this base, before I actually then start going towards some of the decision makers, because if I go right to a decision maker, and they look and they go, he doesn’t, he’s got hardly any connections with anybody else in this company. Why do I want to? Why do I want to speak with him? So that’s a that’s a use of social proof. Right? They see that there’s many other people like them that I’m connected to. And then the other thing is, I don’t, I never, ever, ever try to sell my wares early in that process. I believe you should start to build some relationship. But I what I tried to do with something like LinkedIn is be social. So when I can, when I connect with somebody and I put that personal message, if they have a reply back, great. We have will start to have some conversation if they don’t, because not everybody reads those messages closely. I will at a minimum put out there. I’ll say hey, thanks a lot for accepting the request to connect. I look forward to getting to know you. And quite often that elicits a response. But But I take active steps to start getting to know and have conversation with that person before I ever tried to step in and do something

Will Bachman 25:00
That’s awesome. Tell me about some we talked about liking as one of the kind of key takeaways that you want people to have consistency. reciprocity. Tell me about some of the other techniques and sort of principles that you teach.

Brian Ahearn 25:18
Well, and I will say this that, I always try to steer clear of techniques, tips, tricks, whatever those common words are that people use, because I don’t think a client wants to feel like they were technique or that used a trick on them or something like that. And so that’s why I talked about these principles. And I talked about internalizing and understanding them, because then you understand how to apply them. Another Another one would be scarcity. scarcity says that, that we value things more when we believe they’re rare or going away. It is a natural human phenomenon. In fact, Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel Prize for his work with his late partner, Amos Tversky. For proving that humans feel the pain of loss anywhere from two to two and a half times more than the joy of gaining the very same thing. When you understand that, you need to then be able to bring that into your conversation in a non threatening, not a fear mongering, not a Debbie Downer type way, but honestly, to convey what someone may lose. So here would be an example, when I worked with for the insurance company, and I did a lot of training with our field sales people. You know, in the fourth quarter, they were always an insurance agents offices and trying to motivate them to hit certain goals. So they could maximize their bonus, maybe win a trip and all these things. Unfortunately, most of them went about it the wrong way, they would go out there and they’d say, hey, well, I just looked at the numbers, and you are so close to getting to President circle. And if you get there, you will earn an extra $50,000 in your bonus. Now, that’s going to be motivating, no doubt, rewards motivate behavior. But what I would say based on the research is, you would be more likely to work hard to hit that goal. If the conversation sounded like this, well, I was just looking at the sales numbers, and you are so close to getting to President circle. But if you don’t get there, you will lose $50,000 of your bonus. And I want that to sink into your gut a little bit, I want you to feel like what, what do you mean, I’m gonna lose $50,000? Well, we’ll if you hit the, if you hit the goal, your your bonus will be 150,000. But if you fall short, you’re going to lose $50,000 of that. And I guarantee you, you will have a lot more people working hard to hit that goal. Because once you frame it, as you’ll lose it, they almost feel like it’s theirs, and you want them in and here’s the good news will, if you hit that goal, you’re not going to come back to me in January or February and say Darn you, Brian, for scaring me into getting that bonus, what am I going to do with the extra 50? You’re going to say thank you, for honestly, alerting me to what was on the line? I didn’t realize that.

Will Bachman 28:16
And how would you apply that to? I can see how that works with the salesperson? How would you apply that same kind of scarcity? You know, principle to discussions with with customers?

Brian Ahearn 28:30
Well, it would depend on what you have to offer, what they need. And what is the downside if they don’t act. You know, in insurance, again, that being my background, most people, unfortunately, do not carry enough insurance coverage, you know, then God forbid a tornado wipes out homes and they realize they don’t have enough coverage on their home to rebuild. Or, you know, you’re a business owner, and you didn’t buy what was called business interruption and something stops your business. And yeah, they rebuild your building, but you don’t have any income coming in, and therefore you can’t pay all the bills, you lose some workers. So so there’s always those types of things that are potentially out there. So the, the smart insurance agent would would have a conversation with that with that client and say something like, you know, we’ll I was looking at your current policy. And you know, here at the a current agency, we insure dozens of businesses, they’re very similar to yours. And I noticed that you don’t carry mechanical breakdown coverage. All of our clients in this industry carry this coverage. Okay, so now I’m using some social proof there. I’ve done this for more than 30 years, there’s some authority. And what I’ve seen over that time is too many people coming to us who didn’t have the coverage and it’s severely impaired. Their business, okay, there’s some of that scarcity. I don’t want that to happen for you. And therefore, we think it’s critical that we make sure that we have that coverage on your, on your quote, you may look at and say, gosh, you know, that’s, that’s awfully expensive. But again, I need to then reiterate what happens if you don’t have it, I’m going to fall back on my experience and say, Look, early on in my career, there was a couple of customers who didn’t have it. And this is what happened, I don’t want to see that happen to you. It’s your choice. You’re the one paying the premium. But I am telling you, based on my experience, you don’t want to do this. That’s an all of this will is is not to get more money out of the customer, you know that the the insurance agent who has integrity is doing it because they know, based on their experience, that that is the best protection that that client can have. And there’s never been a client never been a client who has ever gone back to an insurance agent after a loss and said, darn you, Mr. or Mrs. Agent, I’m fully covered. But there’s been a lot who said Darn you, Mr. Mrs. Agent, you didn’t sell me the right coverage, or you didn’t convince me or I don’t have enough now. Right. So that’s the role in that industry is to provide that protection with your with your listeners there, their industries may be entirely different, but they know that they have something that will make that client better off, and that if they don’t make that choice, there’ll be worse off. They need to be able to talk to them about that in a way that again, it’s not a it’s not a fear mongering. It’s not like that person who comes to your home and says, Well, if you signed today, you can save 15%. But if I have to come back tomorrow, I can’t give you that deal. That’s BS. This is about honestly talking about here’s the downside for you and your business. If you don’t take these steps that based on my experience, say are the right things to do.

Will Bachman 32:01
Okay. Fantastic. Tell us a little bit about your practice now. So like, what sort of clients do you serve in terms of giving, training, either sales training or training their executives on influencing principles?

Brian Ahearn 32:20
Okay, my, my primary market that I go after his insurance, I’ve spent my whole career there I was I was part of the insurance industry for more than three decades. I know it inside and out. I understand how this applies not only to the selling, but to underwriting to claim settlement. settling a claim is is a sale of sorts. It’s a persuasive conversation. So insurance companies, and then also larger insurance agencies. When I work with companies, it can be through their sales, their underwriting claims leadership. When I work with insurance agents, it’s almost always simply the agency producers. I mean, they’re the ones who recognize right away, the more persuasive I am, the more money I make. So, so same industry, two different constituents, and then within that different people. But interestingly, some of my bigger clients who’ve come through LinkedIn, had not even been insurance related. I’ve done a lot of work with a hearing aid company who said, you know, the owner was familiar with Robert Cialdini. And he said, we need an expert to tell us how to optimize our process. When we’re interacting with customers, how can we bring this psychology into those conversations. And so I’ve done work with them. And they’re an international company, and I’ll probably be doing some work with their European operations. So that’s been, that’s been really cool. But what I would say, the type of client that I prefer working with is somebody who says, one of our core values and how we interact with each other internally and with our external constituents is that we ethically influence them into making decisions that are in their best interest. And understanding that we need to we need to understand what the psychology is, we need to train people to that we need help in terms of consulting, how can we then begin to apply this, there will be certain people that will need some coaching, because they either will need to shore up their skills, or maybe they’re going to be the people who are then really leading the charge. But it’s an opportunity to go in and train coach and consult to really become a deeply a partner with that company. And if I do my job well, and if they’re good students, at some point, they pat me on the head and they say thank you very much. We’ve got it from here because they fully grasp everything that I’ve taught them, and they can continue on.

Will Bachman 34:49
Until fantastic. So I know Brian, that your book influence of people was one of the top 100 books on influence. Right and can people find your firm online? If you’ve want to get a Twitter account or social media or website? Where can we find online?

Brian Ahearn 35:08
My My website is influenced people dot biz. And they can find me on LinkedIn. If they go to the website. Like if anybody’s interested in the book. I mean, you can click on it’ll take you over to Amazon to get the book which is in paperback, ebook and audible. On the website, you’ll see I mean, I’ve been blogging for more than a decade. So there’s all kinds of information, there’s videos, any podcasts I’ve been guests on, I list all of those. So there’s no shortage of free information for people to really dive a little bit deeper into this. I’ve also done a lot of work with LinkedIn. So if any of your listeners are members of LinkedIn learning, I’ve got a one hour overview on persuasive selling, persuasive coaching, dealing with personalities and some other courses.

Will Bachman 35:59
Fantastic. So check those out, and we’ll include those links in the show notes. Brian, thank you so much for joining today.

Brian Ahearn 36:06
It was my pleasure. I appreciate you having me on. We’ll

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