Will Bachman 00:02
Welcome to Unleashed the show that explores how to thrive as an independent professional Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which connects you with the world’s top independent management consultants. And I’m your host, Will Bachman. I’m so excited to be here today with Angela brewers who runs the corporate agent, a firm that helps small businesses, develop deals and get projects with corporate clients. Angelica, welcome to the show. Thanks. Well, it’s good to be here. And like, what is some of the secret sauce here? How do you help small businesses? What are the phases walk us through the process of helping a small business develop, develop opportunities with corporate clients?

Angelique Rewers 00:45
Well, from certainly a practical perspective, we’re a company that’s a consulting company, a mentoring company, a training company, but in terms of how we do that work, and what we focus on, we really are all about simplifying the labyrinth that it can be to work with b2b organizations. And at the end of the day, well, there’s really three simple problems that whether you’re a management consultant, a solo practitioner, or your 50 million or $100 million company, you always have the same problems every morning, what do you wake up, and that is that you don’t have enough decision makers to talk to, which is a visibility and a proximity problem, you have a problem that they don’t want to talk to you, they don’t want to be sold to. And they’re very busy. So you have a relevancy and an urgency problem. And then when you do get the chance to talk to them, you get that coveted meeting, you get to that coveted decision maker table, you have the problem that you’re having the wrong conversations with these decision makers, which comes down to a control and a clarity problem. So for us, it’s all about solving those three problems, how do you have enough decision makers to talk to how do you crack the code on getting them to want to talk to you? And then how do you structure your relationships with them so that you’re always having the right conversations with the right people at the right time? So that’s really our secret sauce, in terms of how we do what we do.

Will Bachman 02:08
Fantastic. And so walk me through each of the phases. If you approach it that way, I mean, how do how does a small business or a small consulting firm and maybe even just pause that question, what are the types of businesses that you work with?

Angelique Rewers 02:26
A lot of who we work with are all service based companies, whether you’re that person who’s just getting started, you might be a consultant and influence marketing expert to copywriter, an executive coach, we work with tons of coaches, and self employed professionals with home based businesses, but we also work with those boutique firms, those PR firms, those digital marketing agencies, sales companies, lead generation companies for corporate. And then we work with some bigger companies as well that that are really technically mid market companies. But in their mind, they’re, you know, they feel like small businesses, in comparison to corporate. So we work with those as well. But about 90% of who we work with are service based companies, as opposed to product based companies. And there’s a real advantages to that, you know, when you’re when your service based provider scaling is a lot easier, right? So we’re not dealing with those supply chain issues that would come up for, say, a small business that trying to provide brake pads to GM or Ford. So we really focus more on that service base. But it’s also a unique place, as you know, well, because this is your world, too. It’s that whole idea of selling the invisible. So when you’re not a brake pad, and you’re a management consultant, or your marketing Pro, or you’re an executive coach, you have a lot different problems than if you are selling a product to these companies. Because there’s a lot of folks out there who do it. And it’s very difficult to differentiate yourself in the market today.

Will Bachman 03:59
Yeah. So how do you work with clients? on that first part about just getting, you know, being able to even get in front of decision makers?

Angelique Rewers 04:09
Yeah, you know, it’s so old school today, and yet, it completely works. It’s all about visibility, but not just any visibility, it’s about proximity. We have to remember that when you’re talking about busy decision makers there, they don’t operate the same way that all of us do. You know, they’re not sitting, listening to podcasts and reading LinkedIn articles and searching for, you know, free reports on online and clicking through Facebook ads. That’s not how they that’s really not how they behave. They’re very insulated, and they go to only a few trusted sources, about 80% of their information comes from a few trusted sources, and it comes from their peers and their colleagues. And it comes from major centers of influence that are already out there that already exist, whether it’s Gartner, whether it’s Gallup, whether it’s the, you know, original parts manufacturer Association in the automotive industry, whether you know, it’s the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. So really, when you want to tap into these companies, you have to go in through a side door, you have to go in through one of these centers of influence that already exists out there, or you have to create your own platform that they’re going to come to you, but that’s really doubling your effort. So the fastest way to do it, is to understand how to crack the code on building relationships with the centers of influence. And being where those decision makers are already going, where they already have that that trust factor, they already have that relationship, and really putting yourself at the center of that. If you don’t do that you’re quadrupling the amount of work that you have to do. Even things will I know, you know, podcasts are amazing, but even doing things where you’re partnering on podcast episodes with industry associations, so that you can get those eyeballs right, or those ears in the case of a broadcast, but you have to go where they already are. The idea that you can compete, you know, against these organizations for those eyeballs is it’s a tremendous amount of rolling water uphill, and we hate to see those independent business owners doing that.

Will Bachman 06:20
Yeah. And you’ve told me in the past that for and going into corporates, you know, relying on inbound leads, is is is a very long wait, and that you much more favor and more of an outbound approach. Tell me a little bit about real practically, how you help clients, that outbound approach, is it you know, higher email outbound emails, or having someone just dial up and make phone calls to? How do you actually get in front of people,

Angelique Rewers 06:53
the biggest thing is to create your own experiences, your own interactive experiences, or to partner with an organization that you can do that with things like executive roundtables, executive briefings count, you know, right now virtual crowdsourcing across companies and creating those platforms where decision makers from multiple organizations can come together and crowdsource solutions. That’s a really big one right now, in this pandemic space, there is no how to manual of how do you get through the pandemic of 2020, the great shutdown of 2020, that doesn’t exist. I know, we’re all kind of trying to look at you know, is this more like the great recession is this more like the Great Depression, you know, looking back to try to find some things, but creating those experiences is the number one way to get in front of them, you can certainly do outbound emails and phone calls, but you’re looking at percentages of conversion, typically under 1%, which by the way, is the same for for inbound marketing. If the idea that they’re going to find a piece of your content, and they have no idea who you are, you have zero brand recognition with these decision makers, just the chance that they’re going to find your content, if it’s not partnered with an industry association, or professional association, is really slim, really, really slim. And then the fact that they’re going to be able to extrapolate from that content, that you can specifically help them with a super problem that they have. And that they’re going to remember that when the time the sun and the moon and the stars align, you know, your percentages keep going down exponentially in terms of that happening. So we are all about creating experiences well, that you bring those decision makers into whether you’re doing it on your own, or you’re partnering with an organization a center of influence to do that, you have to create experiences for engagement. If you don’t create experiences for engagement, there’s sort of this impenetrable wall that you’re creating, and you’re really stacking the deck against yourself. You’re talking about conversion percentages that are abysmal. And you know, you look at I don’t know, if you’ve talked to folks will that you know, talk about, you know, mass linked in email prospecting right now, I don’t know about you, but every time I log in to LinkedIn, I’ve got, you know, 50 different prospecting emails that look like they’re all forming the following the exact same template. And what are you supposed to do with that, if you’re a decision maker, I spend time every week talking to corporate decision makers. And what they’re telling me is that they want to get off LinkedIn, because that’s how bad it’s gotten. So that’s really not a good solution, either. You’ve got to create opportunities for engagement with these folks. And now more than ever, it’s easy, because we can do it virtually. In person is better, but that’s not an option right now. So now it’s about virtual interaction.

Will Bachman 09:50
Yeah. Give me some real specific examples and you can sanitize it if you need to. But give me some examples of what you’re talking By the things that you’ve helped set up for your clients, these types of experiences for engagement. So

Angelique Rewers 10:05
So one of our clients, for example, we had reached out to a major brand, a really exciting brand, you all would know this company, doing some really innovative things. And they reached out and they said, Look, there are all of these companies that would love to know more about what you’re doing. I’ve partnered with an association that’s based in my city. And we would like to bring you in and have you do a closed door day with these leaders from these companies that are based in our city, I’m working with the association to do this, I’m also going to do a presentation. But we would love for you to share some of the things that your company your brand is leading on obviously not things will that that brand is, you know, that would be proprietary that they can’t that they can’t share, but come in and talk to these other companies, we’re going to facilitate it, there’s actually even going to be a component of this, that is philanthropic that we’re going to give back to an organization for the registration fees of this, but we’re going to have you come in and do that. And so this business owner was able to put themselves right in the middle of this sort of leading edge brand, bring decision makers in from all the major companies based in their city partner with a center of influence that’s also looking to create relevancy, and essentially created, you know, right in their own backyard, this amazing experience with all of these corporate decision makers, and they were the only expert in the room, they were the only consultants in the room. But they were able to do this by making some phone calls and pulling some relationships together and creating a platform for crowdsourcing of information for knowledge sharing. That’s one example another one of our clients just did a virtual executive roundtable with VP level executives from about 15 different financial organizations, because they’re trying to figure out what they’re all going to do. Again, it’s not, you know, they can’t share anything that’s proprietary, but provided that opportunity. And yet another one of our clients in the automotive industry is getting ready to do an executive briefing, they actually did some polling and some surveying of suppliers across that industry. And they’re going to be bringing together those experts, or excuse me, those companies, and they’re going to be an expert talking to them through a virtual executive briefing, sharing some new data and also giving them all a chance to share. So when you do things like this, suddenly, now you are that thought leader, that expert, right who’s bringing the ideas to bear, and you’re the only person in the room, I’d rather compete as the only competitor in the room, even if it’s a virtual room of say, 20 to 25 decision makers, as opposed to trying to compete with 25 million people on LinkedIn, who are pushing out videos and articles, right? So it’s, you know, do you want to own the pond and create the pond and invite the right people into the pond? Or do you want to go out to the ocean of places like LinkedIn, and Instagram and the what, you know, YouTube, and hope that you can compete for those eyeballs?

Will Bachman 13:09
Yeah. So how a lot of people would say, wow, that would be fantastic. I’d love to, you know, be the one to organize a roundtable of 15 financial leaders who all could be my clients. What are some of the practical steps to go about doing that? If you you know, if you’re not super well established, if you’re not in McKinsey, or Bain or BCG, or have some brand like that, how do you get? Yeah, maybe it’s, you know, getting the first two or three to sign up. And then you can say, well, we got, you know, think of Americans coming and JP Morgan’s coming. But how do you go about setting up something like that.

Angelique Rewers 13:48
So if you’re brand new, if you’ve never done this before, we always say, Look, you’ve got to own your own backyard. So you should start with even smaller b2b organizations, those mid markets that are right in your backyard, you don’t necessarily have to have Bank of America or Target or Walmart out of the gate, right? There’s lots of money to be made in the mid market space. In fact, actually, this isn’t talked about very often. But of course, the mid market is really what’s primarily responsible for the economic growth of this country is where all the jobs are created. It’s where the GDP grows, is in that mid market space. So you’ve got to own your own backyard. And it’s a great place to get your feet wet, putting together things like executive briefings, executive power, breakfast, executive roundtables, etc. So I really recommend if you’ve never done this, before, that you start with some smaller companies, that won’t be as intimidating. It’s a lot easier to get a yes, because they’re right in your backyard. Even if it’s virtual. It’s still great to start in your backyard with those companies, easy to get strategic introductions to folks. The biggest thing what’s so great for business owners when they start using strategies like this, is that it’s really not about you so much Cuz it’s about the opportunity for them to exchange best practices with peers, that’s a big part of the draw on this is that opportunity to have some time to talk to peers to talk to colleagues, and really get some value out of that conversation. So that’s a big part of it. Another big part of it will is picking the right topic. You know, folks are always picking these topics that are so generalized, and have no sense of urgency or relevancy. I said, that was the second part of the second problem we help people solve is that idea. They don’t want to talk to you, they typically don’t want to talk to you, because you’re speaking in generalizations, you’re not giving very specific topics, same problem, getting booked to speak, hosting webinars, writing articles, we see it everywhere. So that idea of really picking a topic that has a tremendous amount of relevancy and urgency for them. If you pair that element of urgency and relevancy with the fact that you get a couple of those yeses in the beginning, you get a couple of anchor people, we call them sort of like the anchor seats in that experience. And then that’s exactly right. Well, it’s just what you said, you get a couple yeses. And then you’re able to to add on to that by saying these folks are coming. And now and now we want to have you. The other part too is if you’ve been out speaking, if you’ve had you know, if you’ve done webinars, if you’ve spoken at breakout sessions, and you have, you know, business cards from those experiences, you have people to invite you know how many times you go to an event and you speak. And all you really end up with is a bunch of business cards, and you have no idea how to move those people into a deeper conversation with you, you need a bridge to move them deeper into a conversation with you. And these kinds of experiences are the perfect bridge to move all of those people that are in your LinkedIn that are in your Rolodex that are in that drawer, you know, business cards that are collecting dust, and move them deeper into a relationship with you. And when we start shifting people to this kind of strategic mental approach about what they’re doing in their business, suddenly, they have relationships, they have actual people that they can pick up the phone and feel comfortable having a conversation with. And that really then sets in motion a domino effect in terms of their business development strategies.

Will Bachman 17:14
Okay, great. Give me an example of a topic that would be too general, and then a more specific version of it that might capture someone’s attention better.

Angelique Rewers 17:26
Yeah. So a lot of the topics that are going on right now are all around the pandemic, right. And so we’re seeing articles out on LinkedIn, we’re seeing webinars out on LinkedIn about things like why diversity inclusion, and equity is still important in a pandemic world, or why, you know, leadership pipelines still have to be filled in, in a pandemic world, or why quality management is still important are the 10 things you need to know about, you know, quality management in a pandemic, you know, okay, great. That’s some great information. It’s all valid, it’s all very true. But when I have 59 things on my plate for today, and somehow it’s three o’clock, and I feel like I’ve made no progress on those 59 to do items that I thought I was going to have time to do today. And yet 20, more emails just flooded into my inbox. And I’ve got three more conference calls for the day, am I actually as a decision maker going to make time for any of that information? Alternatively, if someone was hosting a crowdsourcing executive roundtable around, how do you in the next three to four weeks, determine if you’re going to have to make do a workforce reduction or reduce a reduction in force a Rif or whatever you want to call it? And if so, how do you make those decisions so as not to hurt the gains you’ve made on diversity and inclusion, while keep it and also keep the skills you need to weather the, you know, next 12 months of a downturn economy, if you’re going to help me crowdsource what I should be thinking about right now in the next couple of weeks about that, or what or you know, if I’m about to have a meeting internally, with other leaders across the organization, about a risk in our workforce, and you’re going to help me think through that process. So I can walk into that meeting with an agenda of what we really need to be thinking about, that’s tangible to me, I can take action on it in the next 48 to 72 hours. If you’re putting stuff out there right now that folks in decision making roles can’t act on in the next 48 to 72 hours, you’ve got a real problem. And frankly, you’re wasting your time, you know, putting that content together.

Will Bachman 19:44
Okay, all right. So, if someone wants to organize one of these are going to have a virtual event. As a real practical matter, any tips on that to you even if, let’s say that you have let’s say Someone has, you know, has developed a pretty large number of connections on LinkedIn, right with potential people that they might invite. But then there’s also some people where they’re not connected on LinkedIn. So they can look these people up, but they don’t have their email addresses. How would you suggest, as a practical matter, like, what tool would you use to have as a signup tool? You know, do you just say art? Like, email me? And I’ll send you a link? Or do you have a Eventbrite or a zoom sign up? Or? And then how do you send out those invitations? Like what what, what actually works the best in terms of sending out an invitation to these things?

Angelique Rewers 20:40
Yeah, the biggest thing is that you actually don’t want to overcomplicate it. What works best when you’re dealing with busy decision makers is avoiding all the things that we often see done in the online marketing space, frankly. So you don’t need an opt in page. I mean, if you do want to throw a few things up somewhere on your website, that’s fine. But you don’t need to do that. The less that it feels marketing, and the more that it feels like you’re personally being invited to a discussion, the better off that you are. So a lot of those sort of fancy tools can actually backfire on you because it screams marketing, versus an email that you send or a phone call that you make, or even frankly, what two of my favorite tools are text messaging, just texting a decision maker. I’m also a huge fan of bom bom videos. So just dropping a quick video message to a decision maker to let them know that you’re going to be doing this. We also recommend

Will Bachman 21:36
you go ahead with bom bom bom Yeah,

Angelique Rewers 21:39
like a bomb going off. Yeah, Bom Bom videos, which are fantastic. You can send text, when you’re

Will Bachman 21:48
not familiar with

Angelique Rewers 21:49
it is it’s a tool. It’s a subscription, you know, all these cloud based SaaS based tools out there, right? So if I don’t know, I think it’s like 15 to 20 bucks a month for for it. I don’t ask me, my team pays for it. But you know, you’re talking like $20 a month, and you can brand your videos, they’re super quick. And then you can push them right in email, and right over text, by the way, fantastic tool for getting booked for speaking as well, to reach out to conference planners, industry associations. So it’s a really great tool when you’re working. There’s not a lot of cloud based tools that I like for working with corporate. But I do love the bom bom videos for sure. And how did and how does that work? I’ve

Will Bachman 22:33
I’ve heard of this other tool that maybe sound similar called vid yard? Where you can you know, you record a video and then it makes a little bit easier to just record it with your webcam, and then send it in an email. How does the bom bom video work you?

Angelique Rewers 22:52
Yep, we can do cell phone or on your computer. So I have an HD camera right now as we’re talking. So I’m using my HD camera, I can also do it right on my cell phone. And then if you set up your template, not that you have to do but if you set up your template, whenever you send a video, it puts it right in your branding. And you can add a little message that goes with it as well. And that’s it, you just you record it, you send it you put a little message, they can respond back right under the video, including an email. And you know, if they’ve watched it, which I think is a really great aspect, knowing that the decision maker has seen it is really fantastic.

Will Bachman 23:29
Okay? And do you find that you get a better response rate from that than just plain old email,

Angelique Rewers 23:35
you get a better response. When you mix the mediums together, that’s when you get the best response. So if you take email, plus you drop a video plus maybe drop a text, then you’re gonna get the best response. So it’s really that sort of mixed, medium layered response, where you get the best. And the shorter the better. The shorter the video, the shorter the message. There’s an inverse relationship between the length of messages to decision makers and your response. If you can put a yes no question right at the front, hey, I’m pulling together about 15 different leaders from manufacturing companies across the you know, Washington, DC, Northern Virginia area. Would you like you know, would you like to know more about what we’re going to be talking about? Would that interest you to be a part of that closed door discussion? Let me know that kind of quick, very quick, almost elusive. Yep, sense of urgency kind of message will is what’s going to get them to respond as opposed to I’m having this exact, you know, this executive experience and it’s happening on this day and let me give you the 17 and a half learning bullets, learning objectives in bullet point form, if it’s just Hey, we’re going to be pulling together senior leaders from across Northern Virginia to talk about a b&c we’re it’s by invitation only was curious if you’d be interested in possibly being a part of this, this discussion. That’s the kind of thing that they can say yes or no. Once you’ve got the yes or no, can you tell me more about it? Now they’re mentally engaged with you now you’re in a conversation with them, versus in a situation where you’re talking at them in a marketing environment.

Will Bachman 25:15
Okay, cool. All right. Interesting tool. Okay, so um, so keep it really simple. Make it feel like it’s not a marketing kind of fancy, complicated, signup, but easy. Just reply. Yeah, sure. You know, I’ll join.

Angelique Rewers 25:28
Yeah, yeah, sure, I’ll join. And then you can give them the zoom link, or however you’re doing it, zoom is really interesting. I know they’ve been hit sort of in the media with some of their security issues that they’ve had come up well, but honestly, most companies have not blocked zoom from a sort of a firewall perspective. Unlike things like Skype, which over the years, various IT departments have blocked. So zoom is a really great tool to pull people together. The one thing you have to know, though, is that not every you know, we know about zoom in this sort of management consultant, solo practitioner coach world, a lot of people in corporate don’t know about zoom. And so if they’re going to be on camera, or you want to give them that option of being on camera, you should tell them, you know, you need to tell them, hey, there’s an option for all of us to see one another. So be in a place where you can turn your camera on. So we can all have, you know, we can emulate a face to face experience.

Will Bachman 26:23
Sure, okay. That’s good. And then. So beyond the kind of idea of, of those kind of events, doing events, what other types of outbound outreach or other types of experiences would you typically suggest to your clients,

Angelique Rewers 26:43
everything that you do has to be based on proximity. So what we have our clients do is really focus on something every single month that’s putting them in the line of sight with real decision makers, if you’re not in line of sight, at least once a month, a real decision makers, then you’re in big trouble how you do that, I don’t care. So that so long as you’re doing it, so you cannot count. If you want to backfill with some content marketing, if you want to backfill with SEO, by all means, backfill with that. But if you actually want to have a full pipeline, then you have to have an anchor activity on your calendar every single month. Those those activities can be webinars, they can be roundtables, they can be power breakfast, they can be keynotes, they can be a breakout sessions, they can be success showcases, which can be really great where, you know, even across a major company, I can’t believe how many people don’t don’t do this. But you know, if you’ve worked in one department, or you’ve worked for one division of a major company, you have about 100 other potential clients inside of that one company, right? Because you’ve gone in and you’ve done something amazing, with one organization, in whether it’s you know, corporate communications, facilities management, product development, engineering, and manufacturing, security it whoever it is, right. So now you have this great show, you have this great case study of the success that you’ve had with them, but you’re not replicating that success across the organization. So success showcases are a great way to do that, where you, you really lean into the fact that companies today value knowledge sharing, they value that idea of taking things that their company’s already invested in and learning what those best practices are, and then replicating them across the rest of their organization. But most consultants, most older practitioners never go to their original client and say, Hey, let me ask you a question. Is knowledge sharing something that’s value here at GE or at Target? or Walmart? Or whoever? and 99.9% of the time? They’re gonna say yes, right? They’re gonna say yes, because who’s gonna say no to that question? and say, Well, you know, you, you know, Doug, or Jane or whatever, they, you know, just did this phenomenal project that got these these unbelievable results. There’s a lot of knowledge in what we just did that would be a value, and would certainly showcase your department to the rest of the organization in terms of what you’ve done here. Why don’t I help you put together a success showcase that allows you to share this success across your organization, and I’ll support you in doing that. So you want to take the supporting role as the consultants, right. But that ability to then showcase it in an internal webinar. I mean, we’ve had clients do this where the decision maker loved the idea so much that they went use the biggest conference room they could find in their corporate headquarters, and got other teams to come in to hear what they did. And of course, the consultant is sitting there, you know, also adding some color to the conversation, and it’s opening out you know, 2030 different clients right inside the same company. So it’s all about line of sight how you do I don’t care. What I do care about for all of you that are listening is that every single month, you’re putting yourself in the line of sight of real decision makers that they can literally lay eyes on you, not over email, not over phone, but literally, they can lay eyes on you.

Will Bachman 30:17
And then after you’ve done that event, what are your best practices on following up with those decision makers? So you have this great event? Fantastic. But what happens afterwards?

Angelique Rewers 30:30
Yeah, so after that, so the first thing is, obviously, once you’re inside of an organization, it’s really easy to know, everyone’s email addresses, right? So we know the nomenclature now of those email addresses, you’re in the room theoretically, or you’re certainly even if you’re doing it on a conference call, you know who else is on. So now you have to reach out individually to each of those decision makers to introduce yourself to them. And typically, what you want to do at that point is you want to be a value to them. So the next thing isn’t to schedule a call to sell them something, it’s actually offering up an opportunity for you to be a sounding board on how they would take some of those key lessons that they learned from the success showcase, and specifically apply them to their department or to their division or to their function. And so being that sort of sounding board, having that discussion is a great way. And the goal always, of course, is to get to one on one discussions, everything we’re doing on marketing. and business development is always designed to get to that one to one discussion well, so that so after that success showcase, you want to create those opportunities to be that sounding board and have that strategic discussion about now parlaying what they took away from that success showcase and making it relevant to their department. And then that typically is going to open up dialogue, whether they’re ready now to work with you or they’re ready soon to work with you that you’re not going to know until you have a conversation with them. You can’t create a problem, you can’t create urgency where none exists. But having those relationships completely changes the game as to what’s in your pipeline.

Will Bachman 32:04
Okay, fantastic. Well, a ton of information here, Angelica, and I think that you have more information on your website, right? And other thought leadership, where can people go to find out more about you and more about your firm?

Angelique Rewers 32:18
Yeah, the best place to go is the corporate agent.com forward slash influence the corporate agent.com forward slash influence, there are a bunch of free resources on that page all about gaining influence with these corporate decision makers, where to find them? And how do you establish that influence. And really, so much of what we’re talking about today, will is all about that influence factor that you really need to have not being, you know, just one of millions out online, but really creating those experiences that position you as that leading authority as a trusted authority, so that you can have influence in your relationships with these organizations and really be seen in a different light that instantaneously differentiates you from the very, very crowded marketplace that everyone faces today.

Will Bachman 33:08
Fantastic. And we can also include in the show notes, you want to also give some other links for Instagram or Facebook or other places. salutely Yeah,

Angelique Rewers 33:17
I can definitely get you those Instagram is a great place to connect with us because we’re always posting training videos on there, as well as on YouTube. So we can absolutely do that as well. But it’s easy to find me. I think I’m the only Angelica brewers on the planet.

Will Bachman 33:31
Alright, great. So check the show notes for those links. Angelica, thank you so much for joining and sharing such a valuable set of tips with our listeners. Absolutely.