Will: Hello Robin, welcome to the show.
Robin: Thank you for having me.
Will: Robin, I’m really excited to speak with you. I’d like to start with some bad advice. What is some bad advice for book authors?
Robin: Well, I would say that one of the most common pieces of advice that I hear that I think is a terrible piece of advice, is that your book is just a big business card. And the reason why that’s bad advice is it gets people in a mindset of that the book content doesn’t really matter and that it’s just about having something that you can hold up from a podium and say, “Look at me, I’m an author.” Or you can indiscriminately hand out at events.
A book really has the potential to be so much more. And you know, anytime somebody says that to me or I hear somebody saying, “Well, you know, I know I want to write a book, but I’m not really sure what to do with it, but I know it’s just a big business card anyway.” And I’ll stop them and I’ll say, “Let me ask you something, how many business cards have you taken to bed?” And of course the answer is none, right? But then when we think about how many books have you taken to bed. Will, like right now, at this moment, how many books are at your bedside table? Approximately.
Will: Well, they’re mostly on the floor, but I’d say probably about 30.
Robin: Okay. There we go. 30 books on the floor by your bed. Right? And that’s because we read our books in our most intimate places, right? In our bedrooms and our bathrooms and our favorite chair, right? Somewhere in our house. And so there’s a reason for that. And that’s because a book is in fact an opportunity for the author to create intimacy with their reader. And if you’re a coach or you’re a consultant, and you’re using a book to grow your business, where else can you create approximately six hours of undivided attention where you have that opportunity to create intimacy with a prospective client that you’ve possibly never even met yet. And that only happens though when we treat the book in a way that we don’t think of it as a big business card. We treat it in a way that we give it the attention that it deserves so that you can create something of substance and quality so that when your potential client is spending that six hours with you, they’re getting tremendous value and they’re building a relationship with you.
Will: Alright. So number one, bad advice, not a big business card. Number two piece of advice would be what?
Robin: So in that vein, we’ll just continue. The next piece of bad advice would be that you can write your book in a weekend or go from idea to publication in 90 days. And that really ties in … You see a lot of people out there marketing that kind of a service. But that really ties directly to what I was saying about how the book content really matters. And what I have found in my experience of working with people is that getting the book done and having the physical product in your hand is a huge accomplishment. And it is a transformative moment, right? When you get that book back from the printer and you get to hold it in your hand and look at it and say, “Wow, this is my book.” But what we always must understand and always remember is that the value of being an author happens in the process.
So the actual transformation of going from being just a regular expert to being an author, an authority expert, is the process that you go through to write the book. And writing a book shouldn’t just be about spewing out everything you already know that you know. Writing a book, it should be an inquiry into discovering more about what you know, learning about your own beliefs and refining them and testing them and maybe doing some research to find out more about your field so that you become a better expert.
And you can’t do that in a weekend. And you can’t do that, just writing the book really fast and pumping it out and then sending it to Create Space and pumping out a book. It requires, not a whole lot more time, but maybe a few more months, right? Of really giving it the room and giving yourself the room to allow the process to make you better. And you know, the best analogy I could come up with would be it’s like a diploma, right? Like you can go online and fill out a form and you can get an online PHD, right? And you can have something on your wall that says you’re a PHD, but you’re not really a doctor of philosophy, like you are if you go through a doctoral program and get a PHD. Right? Because it’s the process of the study that makes somebody at a doctorate level. It’s not the diploma. The diploma is just evidence of a process. And the same with a book. The book is evidence that you went through a process, which thankfully doesn’t take as long as a dissertation, typically.
Will: Okay. So let’s take a step back. We jumped in, just for fun, into some bad advice.
Robin: Yeah, we went in the deep end here. Yeah.
Will: Give us a brief overview. So I think you introduce yourself as a book coach. Right? So tell us a little bit about how you help folks and what you do.
Robin: Yeah, so I’m a strategic book development writing and publishing coach, and the reason I put the word strategic in there is that I primarily work with people who have businesses, or are in business in some way. So subject matter experts could be coaches, consultants, medical doctors, psychotherapists, things like that, CEOs, nonprofit founders. But basically, you know, change makers of multiple ilks.
The people that I’m working with had a very specific goal. They’re not just writing a book to have a book, they’re not writing a book to give to the grandchildren. They’re writing a book to grow a business and a brand and to further their cause. And so that’s where the strategic piece comes in, because one of the things I do is I help people frame the book in terms of, okay, what is your bigger vision? What is your ultimate goal of what you’re looking to accomplish? Or at the very least, what do you want to accomplish over the next five years? Right?
And how can we position the book so that the book becomes a propeller in a way, a tool that you can use to move you towards your vision faster? One real danger that people can get into if they’re writing a book that isn’t really focused, is the book can become a major distraction from the business and actually pull their attention away. And a big part of my job is helping my clients figure out how not only can they utilize the book to grow their business once it’s out, but what kinds of things can they do even while they’re in the process, so that they can already be experiencing a return on their investment of both time and money that they’re putting in, that even being in the process can help them move the needle.
Will: Great. So you really start, not just tell me about your book, but you say, “Okay, tell me about your business. What are your business goals? What are you trying to achieve? And then, okay, so you had this idea for a book, how is that going to fit in to driving your business?” When would someone typically, ideally start that conversation with you? Is it after they’ve already sort of thought about the book some, and started sketching out table of contents and major ideas, or like even before they do that or after they’ve written 100 pages? When is the ideal time for you to help someone?
Robin: Ideally, it’s when they’re in the idea phase. When they’re thinking they’re ready to start the process of writing a book, they have a lot of ideas. They know that they know a lot, but they’re not really exactly sure how to focus the book. And that’s actually the perfect time, because I have a very specific process that I lead people through. And the first thing that needs to happen before you write anything, before you try to do an outline, the very first thing that needs to happen is you need to come up with what I call a saleable concept. And a saleable concept has three criteria, right? So there’s three boxes that we need to check. And once we can check those three boxes, we have a saleable concept. And the first box is that the concept has to be aligned with the author and your goals for your business, your goals for how you want to impact the world, and also, and this is the one that most often gets left out, your goals for how you want your life to look.
What kinds of activities do you want to be doing? What do you want to add to your life? What do you want to get rid of in your life? Because if we don’t take that into account, then that’s how the book ends up becoming an extra chore and a distraction. So it’s really important to get that piece of the author’s life into the picture. Once we get clear on that, then we go onto the next criteria of saleable concept, which is it must be aligned with what your ideal reader/client already knows they want. And this can also be tricky for experts because what you know your client needs is usually farther down the line than what your ideal client knows that they want.
So because of your level of expertise, you can already see past what they can see. So it’s important when we formulate the concept that we’re meeting your reader where they are. And then the third criteria is it’s got to be unique. And this is the one that generally my clients initially find the most intimidating. This idea of there’s been so much written on my topic, I don’t know how I’m ever going to come up with something unique, but it is not only possible, it’s absolutely certain that we will find that thing that makes it unique. And this can be so powerful too because when you have a unique saleable concept for your book, then you’re also going to be better at communicating what’s unique about the services that you provide, because you’re going to have to have put it into words to define the concept for the book. So that’s like an immediate benefit to your business, which is really cool. So that’s where I like to start with people, is helping them define that clear saleable concept. And then from there, we can build the outline and decide publishing routes and all that stuff.
Will: Okay, cool. So for someone who doesn’t have the benefit of working with you, it sounds like … I’ll just replay what I heard. So saleable concept, you want to understand, first of all, what are the goals of your business? Forget about the book for a second. And then how do you want to impact the world of. Okay. And then how do you want your life to look? And then we go onto part two, what’s your ideal reader? And you want to find something that they already know that they’re looking for, some kind of book. Maybe they’re already searching on Amazon for a book like that. And then, number three, it should be unique.
Okay. I want to go back. What’s the part about how you want your life to look? Is that because certain books might lead you to going and giving big speeches, some might allow you to do consulting. Some might … you’re just trying to sell them. Like, what do you mean by that piece? What’s the multiple choice options for that?
Robin: Yeah, exactly. You want to make sure that when you are framing your book, first of all, like part of it is being clear about who is that ideal reader, right? So you want to make sure that in the book you’re using examples of people who are similar to the people that you want to work with. And then we have to know, well, if we’re defining who you want to work with, we have to make sure that the book is relevant to them, right? So it all works together because a big part of the quality of your life is the quality of people that you’re working with, especially when you’re a consultant. Right? And so that’s a really important piece.
Also, the kinds of activities that you’re going to be doing, because we’re going to be thinking about when we’re defining the concept, we’re also going to be thinking about what are you going to do with the book once it’s out, right? And so if you don’t like speaking in front of people, maybe you’re going to be doing more online or something like that. And then that could impact how we frame the book, because we might be dealing with different audiences. So yeah, it’s really about getting clear on how do you see yourself utilizing the book once it’s out and how do you want to be known in the world, right? Because that can also affect the activities that you’re doing and what your everyday life looks like.
Will: And what are sort of the multiple choice answers to check all that apply for that how do you want to use the book when it comes out? So like mailing it to potential clients or giving talks and handing copies out. What are the different options there?
Robin: Yeah, everything that you said is accurate. And really this comes down to the business strategy again. Right? So the first question is, well, when we’re figuring out, first of all, what’s the business goals and then what are you willing to do to meet those goals, right? Then we can see what kinds of activities or different ways that you can purpose the book in order to accomplish that. So, for some people it is doing a speaking tour. For others, I’ve had some clients who are in highly niched consultancy type industries where we’re it’s not a really broad market, but the market that is there is a very profitable one and they really want, you know … they would love a book to read. If they’re looking at five consultants and one of the has the book, it gives them an edge.
And that’s exactly, they’ll send a copy to a CFO or CEO, before a meeting or something like that. and use that to create some leverage in the sales conversation. So that’s a very valid way to use it. For some people, it is about creating a massive social media campaign. For others, it’s about generating a lot of endorsements. You can combine strategies, but to me, it’s like the most important thing to keep in mind and to remember is that you always must remember that the main thing is the business and the book is there to support the main thing and don’t think of the book as the main thing. Because when you do, then you can get pulled off course, because there’s no shortage of things you could do with the book. But if you always are keeping in mind what are the goals, what are my business and my personal goals, and make sure that anything you do for the book aligns with that, then you can get a lot of leverage out having a book. Otherwise, you can really diffuse your energy.
Will: That’s fantastic. Could you give us some case examples, and they certainly can be sanitized, of you have clients that you’ve served and maybe what was their initial idea for a book and then how you worked with them? What was the final book? Give us some sense of how a lay person like myself might be thinking about, “Oh, I’ll do this book.” But then you’ve helped them get to a place with a book that’s more aligned strategically with their goals.
Robin: Yeah. I’ve got one quick example, and it’s from a little while back, so I hope I remember the details, but I have a client, he was a consultant where he facilitates mergers and acquisitions. And he initially was going to do a book on due diligence from the acquiring side, I think it was. And then as we were getting into our conversation, I realized that he actually consults on both sides. And not in one deal but, but he changes sides. And so we did the book where it explained for both sides what they need to look at in terms of due diligence. And it really made it a much more valuable tool, because now for people going in to a deal, they could not only see what they need to look for, but they could also see what the other side is going to be looking for, so they could better prepare.
Will: Yeah, that’s interesting. I mean there’s probably a lot more stuff out there when you’re doing due diligence and you’re buying the company. But I think there’s probably less advice out there, “Hey, if you’re going to be acquired, here’s the things to look for in a good acquirer.”
Robin: Exactly. Exactly. So he was thrilled with that adjustment, and then it made the book so much more useful to his business because he does work on both sides. And then it also made him appear so much more valuable because then he could show right up front, whoever was hiring him, that he had a really clear understanding of both sides and could support his client in that completely multidimensional way, instead of just the one dimensional way.
Will: Alright, cool.
Robin: So that’s a good example.
Will: So I want to spend some time talking about the actual kind of writing and production of the book, but maybe we can jump a little bit towards the end. So one thing that you hear a lot about now is publishers don’t want to talk to you unless you have already built up a following, either an email list or a big social media presence or some kind of following that is a natural buyer, natural audience for your book. Could you talk about that a little bit? And if someone doesn’t already have that and they’re thinking about writing a book, how do you encourage people to start doing that? Maybe in parallel, is that essential do you think? Or maybe not for everyone? Talk about that kind of building up your following and is that something that you do or are there firms that you recommend for that?
Robin: Yeah, great question. There’s a lot of questions in there. So we’ll break it down a little bit here. So first of all, I would say that not everybody needs a traditional book deal, but some people really do. So the first question is do you need a book deal? Like, for example, my client with the due diligence book doesn’t need a book deal because there’s just not that many people involved directly in a merger or an acquisition on a given day, where there would be a big enough audience for it for a publisher, for a major house publisher, to really be able to see a benefit from publishing that book, right? Because they want to have like a potential pool of buyers that are in the multiple millions for a topic. And that’s probably not true for a book like that. So not everyone needs a book deal to accomplish their goal.
So if we keep going back to this idea of keeping the main thing, the main thing. The main thing is the goals for the business. So you decide you’re publishing route based on your goals for your business. Sometimes it’s better to self publish just in terms of time. It takes longer to get a traditional book deal and go through their production process than it does to self publish. Even if you take an appropriate amount of time and write an excellent book. So there can be many factors that weigh in on that decision. But let’s say you do decide that a traditional book deal is the best route for you and if you’re dealing in a topic that has a great deal of interest. And also, business is one of the top selling categories of books. So there’s definitely plenty of room there for those kinds of books.
And so in that case, what it really comes down to is the only way the publisher can make money from your book is book sales. You can make money from your book a myriad of ways and so that’s wonderful for you, but they need to make back their investment for producing the book. And so that’s why people need to have some kind of audience. What it really is, what they’re looking for, is that you’re able to demonstrate your ability to sell books. And so my advice is always, okay, so out of all the ways that you could grow an audience, which tactics make the most sense in terms of facilitating your bigger vision? So would it help your business if you were on national television or featured in national magazines? Or maybe would it help your business if you developed a huge Twitter following or a huge Facebook following?
Would it help your business if you were out speaking 200 times a year, in front of large groups or even moderately large groups. Because then, whatever tactic you use, if it’s also helping you achieve your bigger vision, and then it just so happens to be growing a platform for the book, then it becomes sustainable. If you’re just doing activities just so you can say you have a platform, so you can get a book deal that ultimately is unsustainable and it’s not going to serve you or the publisher in the long run.
Will: Okay. So it needs to serve not just the book itself, but you need to be doing this … If you’re in business, you know it’s for the larger business purpose or you’re growing this following.
Robin: Yeah, exactly. Like one tactic could be that you want to get an email list of 100,000, but if that doesn’t make any sense for your business, because if you could have a multimillion dollar business and have a thousand names on your list, then maybe you don’t need that. Right? And so you don’t need a bunch of junk emails that you don’t really have a use for in terms of your business, just so that you can tell a publisher you have 100,000 people on your list. So I think it’s always keep the main thing, the main thing.
Will: Alright, cool. Let’s talk about some of the collateral stuff other than the actual writing the book itself. If you’re going to do self publishing, because maybe you have a very limited audience, maybe you really care about 200 people reading the book and that’s all you need. Right? So what’s the set of people that you will need to find or maybe there’s firms that will do this for you, but I imagine there is a copy editor or someone to design the cover, do the table of contents, do the index, maybe do the graphics laid out. Could you walk through that and how you coach people and advise people on putting that team together or how does that work?
Robin: Yeah, absolutely. So first, you really need an outstanding book. You want to have a good quality of manuscripts, because the content matters for all the reason that we just talked about. But when you’re ready to go into the production phase, generally, the first line is a outside copy editor who did not help write the book. And this is valuable because you get a fresh set of eyes. Even a book coach can get a little too deep in to see everything. Right? And so it’s good to have another reader who is a professional editor up before you go to layout. When you go to layout-
Will: And I’m sorry, on the copy editor, for a lay person like myself who hasn’t really worked with one, is that person gonna just work on like spelling and grammatical errors or are they going to work on like, “Hey, these sentences could be rewritten.” Or they’re going to be working on larger things. Like the structure of this whole chapter doesn’t really work for me or you know … What level do they do?
Robin: Yeah, yeah. Great question. Well, if you’ve done a good job with the manuscript, if you’ve got a really solid well written draft, then that copy editor should be doing mainly proofreading and maybe some light edits, like a little suggestion here or there. Is it okay if I change this to this. And that’s what we call it when you send in a really clean copy and then what you get back is a really light copy edit, which is typical with my clients even when we’re working with big house publishers, but we still want to have that new pair of eyes. Now proofreading is another different type of editing. And often, it even requires a different type of person than a copy editor. So a proofreader or kind of personality should be very almost like an accountant sort of personality, very just matter of fact, highly detail oriented, where they’re going to catch all those little picky mistakes that the average person won’t see, but we really can’t have in the book because it lowers your credibility and you have those kinds of typos and stuff in there.
The reason they call it a proofreader is because they’re reading proofs, which means they’re reading laid out proof. So they’re not reading a manuscript in a Word doc. They’re reading a laid out proof that’s ready to go to press. So before we can do that, we need to hire the designer and this is a really important thing. You can’t just get any graphic designer. You need a specialist who does … A specialist book designer who does cover design and interior layouts. And that’s what they do. It’s a very specific skillset. You don’t have that skillset just because you’re a graphic designer. So you really want to hire somebody who has a web page that you can look at that has a lot of examples of really good looking book covers. How do you know it’s a good book cover? You want to look at those book covers and see did they look self published or do they look like they came out of a big house? If they look self published, it’s not your designer. So find someone else.
Will: So the book designer, is the person who does the cover design, is that different typically than the person who does all the interior design?
Robin: It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. I work with a guy who does both. He’s excellent, which I’d be happy to refer you to. I would say that if you get an excellent person, I think it’s better if you can get someone who can do both because it’s just simpler, just one less vendor to have to work with. And it can be just more streamlined that way. But if you know you have somebody who really knows what they’re doing with the cover, then my other advice would be just let them do their job and don’t ruin it. Because you’re not a designer. Right?
This a designer that I work with, I can look at his website and I can tell you exactly the covers were the author just overrode his advice, you know what I mean? And got what they wanted instead of what he would have recommended. And you can tell very clearly, and like I’m saying, just look at the cover and ask yourself, does this look like something a major house would put out or does this look like something that you made in your kitchen?
Will: Okay, so far we’ve talked copy editor, proofreader, designer.
Robin: Yeah, layout and design. Then you go to the proofreader. So when after the book is laid out, that’s when you get the proofreader and they’re actually going to be reviewing the proofs themselves. And this is really important because you’re adding elements like pagination, an index, a copyright page. All those things that weren’t in your original manuscript. So they’re not only going to check the main body texts, but they’re going to check and make sure that if the table of contents says that chapter two starts on page 23, that that is in fact the truth and that everything is lined up properly that way, as well as editing your main body text. So the proofreader looks it over. And of course you also should be reading it again, but by the time it’s in proofs, you really want to do minimal … you only want to change things that absolutely need to be changed. At this point, rewording a sentence because you think it sounds a little better is off the table when you’re on the proofs.
Will: If you want to have an index, is that another specialist person?
Robin: Yeah, an index would be a different person. Yeah.
Will: Alright. And if you want to do it as an e-book, do you have to have a different person to kind of convert it into an ebook form?
Robin: Not necessarily. Sometimes somebody who can do a hard copy layout can also do a Kindle layout and an iPad layout for you. Yeah, that depends. And of course, if you want to do an audio version, than that would be a different person and then you want to … I also work with like a book packaging company that I really trust that I refer my people to, who handles … Because when you’re self publishing, I mean, listen, you’re an expert in what you do. You don’t need to become an expert in this. You’re not going to be writing so many books that you need to be doing on an everyday basis. So I recommend working with a reputable, trustworthy book packager. I think the thing you need to be a little careful of is that there’s a lot of companies out there that are selling different kinds of packages where, and this is tricky, because I couldn’t possibly tell you all the things you have to be aware of.
Will: And when you say book packager, is that … because this sounds kind of complicated to find and vet … How do I know-
Robin: Yeah, you don’t need to find all these personal vendors. What I would say is you want to go with a really good packaging service where they have all these resources, because it’s not only that. You’ve got to get your copyright registration, your Library of Congress control number, your ISBM number. You don’t need to be messing with that. But if you work with a packager, they can take care of all that for you. And I would just say that the best way to do this is don’t work with one of those pay for play publishing companies. It’s going to like say that they’re publishing you, because all that’s going to do is they’re not going to promote your book and they’re just going to take the lion share of your sales. And you’re gonna pay them, probably above average price for the privilege. So what you want to do is just go with a company that is just about packaging the book, but is still your self published book. And that would be the biggest thing to look out for.
Will: Yes. [inaudible 00:35:33]. If a listener of the show comes to a book packager with like the complete manuscript. What would the cost be for the full package of copy, editing, layout, cover design, Library of Congress, all that stuff? Like roughly what does that cost?
Robin: It’s tricky because there’s those factors, right? Like how long is the book and things like that, but-
Will: You’re typical business, around 250 pages.
Robin: Yeah, let’s ball park it. Like around $3000. Is what it should be.
Will: All right.
Robin: It should not be more. It should not be … If you’re being told it’s 8,000, $10,000, move on.
Will: Okay. And that’s like the copy, edit, the proofing, the design, and everything?
Robin: Yeah, I would say the upper limit should be like five, because I have to say … I want to preface this though, copy if it’s actual … if you’re turning in a manuscript that needs a lot of work, then it’s going to be closer to five in the copy editing stuff because … I’m assuming you’re turning in a clean manuscript that just needs some light editing, for around the $3,000 range. Otherwise, you are going to be up in those … but if they’re charging you $8,000 to give you a cover design and interior layout and get your paperwork done and give you one round of copy editing, move on.
Will: Yeah. So that’s the book packager. And then what do you do after that? I guess they give you a file and then you have to go make it-
Robin: Well, they should be able to help you get it on Amazon as well.
Robin: They’re not going to help you get into bookstores. Even if they tell you they are.
Will: Sure, of course.
Robin: They’re not going to. So forget that. Don’t pay extra for that because it’s not going to happen.
Will: For Amazon now, is it like this print on demand thing or would you actually have printed copies stored in some warehouse somewhere that Amazon would ship or how does it-
Robin: Well, you don’t need a ton of copies, but you always want to have some hard copies on hand so that you can have them, because you’re going to be going out and doing stuff, but you don’t need to keep like 3000 copies in her garage. And that’s a bad idea because paper yellows and it’s not a good idea. But Amazon, I mean this is where we’re kind of getting like this is why I have a book packager, but obviously you’re going to have to get them printed and you don’t really want to print more than 100 copies at once unless you have a specific purpose for that.
Will: So there’s a different thing from the book packager? You’d go find a book printer that maybe the packager-
Robin: They would help you manage that. Yeah, they should help you manage that.
Will: And then it will look like better than one of those … you get some of these books on Amazon that are print on demand and they don’t look the greatest, you know? So if you wanted something that’s actually like decent, like bookstore kind of quality looking, you could just go to like a real printer? [inaudible 00:38:21].
Robin: A lot of it has to do with how the layout was done. That’s why I’m saying you really need a layout designer who knows what they’re doing. Like one thing I see a lot of times on these print on demand books is that you know how when you open up a book and you look down, like down the spine from the opening. We call it the gutter, and if it’s not been laid out properly, the words go too deep into the gutter.
Robin: And so you have to like bend it way open to be able to read the rest of the line, that’s bad lay out. And that’s a great example of somebody who’s probably a graphic designer who’s inexperienced with book layouts and they did a layout.
Robin: That should never happen. And it never happened for a traditionally published book.
Will: Huh. And you’d only print 100 copies at a time. Okay.
Robin: Yeah. Typically, unless you know you’re going to do a big [inaudible 00:39:14] on a big order or something. Like one of my clients just sold 11,000 copies of this book to Amway. Like right after the book came out. He was pretty excited.
Will: That’s amazing. Congratulations.
Robin: Yeah. I’m so happy for him.
Will: And when you sell it on Amazon then, so let’s say you print some copies, where do you put those so that Amazon can sell them? I understand the Kindle. You’d upload your file, but like how do you get your book somewhere so that Amazon can ship it?
Robin: Yeah, I’m not super versed in this. I wish I had my friend who has the book package company with me for this part, because one way to do it is you can do it through Create Space so that you can just print and then Amazon will have them in their inventory. But as I understand it, like if you’re printing it somewhere else, it’s, it can be kind of a pain because like Amazon will only order a few, like four or five copies at a time, until they really are convinced that you’re selling copies. And then you have to mail them, ship them over there or something. That’s probably changed because like I said, ever since I found this other company that I work with on the packaging, like I just know that they’re gonna take care of my client, make sure it happens.
Will: All right. Awesome.
Robin: Yeah. So I don’t have all those details, thank God. Definitely out of my wheel house.
Will: You gave one story earlier of the M&A consultant. Do you want to share any kind of success stories of someone that you’ve worked with who published a book and then it really helped impact their business?
Robin: Yeah, it kinda depends on like the different ways that it impacts their businesses. One of them that I’m especially proud of I think is a client of mine who had a really successful fitness business. And as an online marketer, he had … very successful, like a millionaire before he was 30 from selling information online.
At the point that we started working together in his mid thirties, and he was starting to feel that his audience was primarily young men, but they had continued to follow him for like the 10 years he’d already been in business and he really wanted … he was starting to feel like he wanted to work with people in a deeper way and connect with them in a deeper way and work with them not just on their physical wellbeing but more overall.
And so we started talking about a book concept for him that would help create a bridge for him so that he could get out of being just known for bodybuilding and really change how his audience sees him. So this is a pretty major transition for somebody because he had such a solid brand for 10 years, known as this one thing. And so we ended up creating a book concept that … In this case, we did get a traditional publishing deal. So I helped him get a literary agent and I helped him … Then he went on to get a publisher and then we wrote the book together. And what we did was … it was still a lot about fitness and creating a better body, but we also included in the first part, and in the last part, we included more things about mindset and then like the overall lifestyle. Right?
And what that did was it laid a foundation for him to create a whole other side of his business, were like when the book first came out, he did his first event and he had like six people in the room, where it was about coaching primarily men still on growing a business and a great life. And within less than the first year of after his book came out, he was starting to put 60 people in the room for the same event, and it completely opened up an entirely new revenue stream for him, and enabled him to continue his journey. I think what I find the most gratifying in my mind is that it enabled him to continue living his full expression, right? And not feeling like he was pigeonholed by how people knew him in the past. And it also created a much higher ticket revenue stream for him. So instead of only showing tens of thousands of copies of a $49 program, now he’s consistently filling rooms of 60 people or more, at several thousand dollars a person. And then he’s also able to relate to them, you know, in a more personal way and influence multiple aspects of their lives, and not just their physical fitness. So pretty exciting story.
Will: Sound awesome.
Will: Before we wrap, Robyn, I want to make sure we ask you what is the best way for people to find you? Do you want to give a website, email address, Twitter, what’s the best way for people to find you?
Robin: Yeah, that’s great question. My website is really easy. It’s robincolucci.com and you can learn more about me there. And it has a button on there if you’re curious and you want to have a conversation about what it might look like to get a book done, or even if you are just curious about finding out like when would be the best timing for you to do a book, what would make the most sense. I offer a complimentary consultation and you could just click the schedule now button on my website and we can have a chat and that’s really the best way to get directly in touch with me.
Will: Alright. So robincolucci.com. We’ll include that link in the show notes.
Will: Robin, it has been great speaking with you.
Robin: Thank you so much. Will, it’s been wonderful to be here with you.